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Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

johnkurkowski.com

11–20 of 97 posts

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#12
I don't think we have to worry about "everyone" or even a small percentage thereof learning how to code. They won't. It's not that they can't, but it takes more than a couple of hours writing "Hello World" to do anything substantial and most people are not willing to put in the time, day after day, to learn anything substantial.

That being said, I can't imagine anything more human and more powerful than text. If I want to give instructions to a _human_, the best way I know of is to write them down as clearly as possible. If this works with a complex person, why would it not work with an incredibly simple (from an abstract point of view, not implementation) microprocessor. After all, all processors have an extremely limited set of instructions (even CISC ones).

This desire for something that is not text seems misplaced. After all, text is (IMO) certainly better than pairs of numbers indicating operation and data. Writing is one of the greatest human achievements. To dismiss it in favor of touch or something graphically visual is to disregard its power and superiority to both touch and visual systems of communication.

When designing a system, if I am able to give it commands in English (or any other language), this would be vastly superior to anything visual or touch based that I can think of or that the article specifies (or rather doesn't). To take the whole system of a language like English with its complex idea-expression engine and its vast array of words (1 million++) and discard it is ridiculous. Now, we are not currently programming in English, or anything even remotely close (though many languages' grammar follows from natural language somewhat), but I do believe this is, and has been for decades, a goal that may one day be achievable. This is desirable as humans are naturally inclined towards language and those who practice it can be incredibly good communicators (programmers of reality).

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#13
I don't the author understands programming if he sees object-oriented programming as being in the same bucket as HTML/CSS/JS. OOP is a way to deconstruct problems, just like functional programming, and their beginnings are based on very similar principles.

Any language that fully accepts the object-oriented paradigm lends itself very naturally to functional programming, and vice-versa.

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#14
This blog post would have been way better without the ranting style of writing.

It doesn't even get to the point (that programming does not have to be text-based) until halfway into the article.

The title and the objection to other people learning to code are at most tangentially related to that point. Just because there could be better ways to give instructions to machine doesn't mean other people should wait to learn how to instruct machines until those methods are developed.

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#15
> "Programming is a notion to extend human capability, by offloading humanly-infeasible work onto a machine. It is the promise of an amplified knowledge worker. This would be worthy to learn."

With this (correct) notion the author continues until he decides that

> "Meanwhile there are few souls looking to evolve text code into something more humanly intuitive. For example something you can touch, you don’t have to read, or that tells you what the computer is thinking, so you don’t have to think like a computer yourself."

I can't help but feel that what the author really wants is some futuristic kind of AI assistant. Decades of programming progress has resulted in numerous abstractions piled on top of one another in order to minimize the amount of "thinking like a computer" that you have to do. But all abstractions are leaky and when you encounter those leaks you will inevitably have to be able to think like the machine you are trying to communicate with.

Why is it acceptable to say that effective communication with people depends on being able to think like the person you're talking to, but demand that communication with a far more different and limited machine should never require you to compromise on your preferred thought patterns? This is the fundamental fallacy of the natural language programming advocates. They want to use another entity to do things for them but demand all communication with that entity be in their preferred language, on their own terms.

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#16
post #9

Hold on a second. OOP, markup, APIs, and HTML/CSS/JS are snake oil, while visual programming isn't? Say what you will about the former technologies, but they're being used for productive purposes. Visual programming is vaporware that someone tries to build every 5 years or so to no effect. Functional programming has much the same challenge, but it's getting integrated into mainstream languages. Otherwise, it would li…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LabVIEW

I believe that's an example of visual/graphical programming, it's fairly mainstream in some areas and not vaporware.

Re: Rest of comment - Filtered site, I'll read it at home.

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#17
When I saw the title, I thought it was, "Come back after you practiced for 10 years" which doesn't help much.

I used to think the solution was better interfaces, or making programming more accessible to the lay person. I get less sure of this over time. It seems like what we've gained in language ease of use (Python versus C) we've given back in environmental complexity. The net is better productivity for programmers, and more people crossing the divide (CS programs growing by leaps and bounds) but we're far from being there for the Everyperson. I don't see this changing in 10 years without increasing the rigor and logic requirements of our entire educational system.

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#18
My paraphrase of this article:

"All of the blood sweat and tears poured into making programming more productive over the years just isn't good enough. No, I haven't done anything, personally, to improve the situation. My plan is to continue bitching about how things aren't good enough until...well, indefinitely, because bitching about other people's efforts is much easier than doing the hard work of solving a challenging problem myself."

Is that too harsh? I don't see a single concrete, actionable proposal in there, let alone anything the author has personally done to fix the sorry state of programming.

I also think it's a huge disservice for him to dissuade his friends from programming until some state of nirvana is reached in programming tools. There are some hurdles to overcome, but a little bit of programming skill can greatly amplify the reach, scope and influence of non-programming talents.

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