Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

An insider’s story of the global attack on climate science

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 94 posts

Re: An insider’s story of the global attack on climate science

#11

Post by crisnoble »

adwhit wrote: post #4

The best science says that climate change is probably going to make a large fraction of the world practically uninhabitable in less than a hundred years. Climate change is quite possibly the one and only story of the 21st century. What could be more deserving of our attention? And yet I've noticed that such news stories get a rather cool reception on HN, possibly because it doesn't fit the Whiggish philosophy that te…

I refuse to believe that humanity is at its apex.

Keeping our heads in the sand about climate change is a terrible idea and will have dire consequences. Admitting defeat and that the world is about to go down the toilet is also going to have dire consequences.

My opinion: Raise awareness about the problem and fight to fix it.

Re: An insider’s story of the global attack on climate science

#12

Post by __david__ »

jobu wrote: post #3

The title is a little misleading. The story is from one of the scientists targeted in the attack, not an insider from the attacking side (which would be very interesting indeed). Decent article, but not exactly surprising given what I've already read about on some of the attacks on climate science here in the U.S.

I didn't find it misleading at all. It's from exactly the viewpoint that I assumed after reading the title...

Re: An insider’s story of the global attack on climate science

#13

Post by acqq »

crazy1van wrote: post #5

This has really become more of a religious argument than a science argument. Some people will never be convinced man made climate change is real. Others will never be convinced it isn't. The rest of the people don't care.

It would be a clear science argument if there weren't groups that are very motivated (money, power) to misdirect the public by making "doubts" for their own gains, as the article clearly illustrates.

There is a practical scientific consensus that the current global warming is real and caused by the human activity. The illusion of "maybe yes maybe no" (quasi-religious doubts) can come only from the media who give the equal attention to the one doubter and to the group of almost all world's scientist.

In the internet speak, the deniers are successfully trolling the public.

Re: An insider’s story of the global attack on climate science

#14

Post by konradb »

I thought that picture of an advert from the 'Heartland institute' near the bottom of the page was a hilarious albeit overdone joke.

"I still believe in global warming. Do you?" - Ted Kaczynski, The Unabomber

So I assumed it was a joke, and such transparent and patronising adverts could never have been dreamed up. However it does look like that was a planned advert, luckily the campaign was canned. I'm still kind of amazed!

Re: An insider’s story of the global attack on climate science

#15

Post by scarmig »

crusso wrote: post #10
adwhit wrote: post #4

The best science says that climate change is probably going to make a large fraction of the world practically uninhabitable in less than a hundred years. Climate change is quite possibly the one and only story of the 21st century. What could be more deserving of our attention? And yet I've noticed that such news stories get a rather cool reception on HN, possibly because it doesn't fit the Whiggish philosophy that te…

The best science says that climate change is probably going to make a large fraction of the world practically uninhabitable in less than a hundred years The best climate science is still crap. We can note some upward trends, but we still haven't created very good models that predict where things are going or how quickly. We still don't know how strong of an effect CO2 has to our climate vs solar activity and natural…

Did you choose to take Judith Curry's word for it over the mainstream of the scientific community because of your expertise, or because she conveniently says things that align with your pre-existing opinions?

Blogs are always a less-than-ideal medium for picking out scientific truth, but compare Judith Curry's blog (which is barely better than Watts Up With That) with, say, RealClimate:

http://www.realclimate.org/

The differences in scientific focus is immediately evident. Judith Curry myopically focuses on lazy "debunkings," yelling at her imagined enemies, and hyping up her own public appearances; RealClimate focuses on new scientific papers, what's going on at conferences, and a much smaller proportion of "ethics" and "meta" questions.

Re: An insider’s story of the global attack on climate science

#16

Post by tvladeck »

crusso wrote: post #10
adwhit wrote: post #4

The best science says that climate change is probably going to make a large fraction of the world practically uninhabitable in less than a hundred years. Climate change is quite possibly the one and only story of the 21st century. What could be more deserving of our attention? And yet I've noticed that such news stories get a rather cool reception on HN, possibly because it doesn't fit the Whiggish philosophy that te…

The best science says that climate change is probably going to make a large fraction of the world practically uninhabitable in less than a hundred years The best climate science is still crap. We can note some upward trends, but we still haven't created very good models that predict where things are going or how quickly. We still don't know how strong of an effect CO2 has to our climate vs solar activity and natural…

> Let's all step away from the hype, politics, and hollywood portrayals to figure out what's really going on.

Sure, but let's also enact policies that help make our societies and economies more robust to whatever that answer is. When there are time lags involved, you cannot wait for perfect information before you act.

Re: An insider’s story of the global attack on climate science

#17

Post by acqq »

gretful wrote: post #6
npsimons wrote: post #2

I'm glad to see this finally being acknowledged and the funding behind these attacks being called out. In fifty years, when economies are collapsing due to rising sea levels and all the upheaval caused thereby, will we finally look back (as we did with smoking propaganda) and realize what influence malicious greed can effect over ignorance?

Or in 50 years when things are the same will we finally look back and realize what influence greed and stupidity can effect over people that reason things through rather than accepting everything printed? Remember - 40 years ago it was Global Cooling.

Remember: the science just improves, and the science works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_c...

"The scientific opinion on climate change is that the Earth's climate system is unequivocally warming, and it is extremely likely (at least 95% probability) that humans are causing most of it through activities that increase concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, such as deforestation and burning fossil fuels."

Re: An insider’s story of the global attack on climate science

#18

Post by skorgu »

__david__ wrote: post #12
jobu wrote: post #3

The title is a little misleading. The story is from one of the scientists targeted in the attack, not an insider from the attacking side (which would be very interesting indeed). Decent article, but not exactly surprising given what I've already read about on some of the attacks on climate science here in the U.S.

I didn't find it misleading at all. It's from exactly the viewpoint that I assumed after reading the title...

I parsed it wrong the first time as well. I was only confused until I got to "In 1981, as part of my PhD work," at which point all was clear.

Re: An insider’s story of the global attack on climate science

#19

Post by yobb »

gretful wrote: post #6
npsimons wrote: post #2

I'm glad to see this finally being acknowledged and the funding behind these attacks being called out. In fifty years, when economies are collapsing due to rising sea levels and all the upheaval caused thereby, will we finally look back (as we did with smoking propaganda) and realize what influence malicious greed can effect over ignorance?

Or in 50 years when things are the same will we finally look back and realize what influence greed and stupidity can effect over people that reason things through rather than accepting everything printed? Remember - 40 years ago it was Global Cooling.

My thoughts exactly. The planet goes through natural cycles of warming and cooling. Man made "climate change" of any stripe is a hoax.

Re: An insider’s story of the global attack on climate science

#20

Post by joshuahedlund »

npsimons wrote: post #2

I'm glad to see this finally being acknowledged and the funding behind these attacks being called out. In fifty years, when economies are collapsing due to rising sea levels and all the upheaval caused thereby, will we finally look back (as we did with smoking propaganda) and realize what influence malicious greed can effect over ignorance?

> In fifty years, when economies are collapsing due to rising sea levels...

Sea level rise has not accelerated in twenty years of measurement[0] (depending how you cherry pick the analysis it is actually decelerating[1]) and will add 160mm or about half a foot if the next fifty years is the same pace as the last twenty. I don't think that's going to collapse very many economies.

[0]http://sealevel.colorado.edu/ [1]http://climatechangedebates.com/sea-level-stats-longer.php

Post reply on HN