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How Silicon Valley became "The Man"

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Re: How Silicon Valley became "The Man"

#11

Post by twoodfin »

[deleted] wrote: post #9
twoodfin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not seeing the connection between regulation today and the IHS or (D)ARPA decades ago. Both the IHS and the Internet were created in an era with dramatically fewer pages in the Federal Register.

[deleted]

And that was a mistake? I don't see the principle that can stand against any regulation no matter how ill-advised when the counter argument is "you must hate highways and the internet".

It's a great argument against someone who demands no regulations or laws, sure.

Re: How Silicon Valley became "The Man"

#12

Post by [deleted] »

twoodfin wrote: post #11
[deleted] wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

And that was a mistake? I don't see the principle that can stand against any regulation no matter how ill-advised when the counter argument is "you must hate highways and the internet". It's a great argument against someone who demands no regulations or laws, sure.

[deleted]

Re: How Silicon Valley became "The Man"

#13

Post by msutherl »

jerf wrote: post #8
_delirium wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of libertarian rhetoric, but are actual libertarians really widespread in the Valley? To me it comes across as a loud but very small minority— albeit perhaps also one that's disproportionately represented among those at the very top (perhaps part of why it's so loud). Someone like Peter Thiel might be a libertarian-conservative politically, but the average middle-class techie seems more like a middle-of…

I can't help but think all the libertarian hating is an attempt to find a new scapegoat in those places where Republicans have been all but eliminated. Because let me tell you, "volume" from Silicon Valley or not, libertarians have almost no power. Conservatives pass laws, Republicans pass laws, Democrats pass laws, Liberals pass laws, Libertarians mostly post on the Internet. Whatever's going wrong in SV isn't the l…

You don't think Peter Thiel has power?

Re: How Silicon Valley became "The Man"

#14

Post by jamesmiller5 »

If you found this article interesting I highly recommend the documentaries "All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace" and "The Century of the Self" both by Adam Curtis.

A number of points in the article were covered in the documentaries such as 40's & 50's era mass media concerns and early valley cultural experiment failures.

Re: How Silicon Valley became "The Man"

#15

Post by Futurebot »

_delirium wrote: post #3
rayiner wrote: post #2

The answer to the third question is great: "A legacy from the communalist movement that I think is pernicious is a turning away from politics, a turning toward the self as the basis of political change, of social action. I think that’s something you see all through the Valley. The information technology industry feeds off it because information technologies can so easily be aimed at satisfying individual needs. You s…

There's a lot of libertarian rhetoric, but are actual libertarians really widespread in the Valley? To me it comes across as a loud but very small minority— albeit perhaps also one that's disproportionately represented among those at the very top (perhaps part of why it's so loud). Someone like Peter Thiel might be a libertarian-conservative politically, but the average middle-class techie seems more like a middle-of…

It's possible that part of the confusion around some this is both what's meant by Libertarian in this context and whether we're talking about actual political affiliation or /cultural attitude./ First, I think if the article was more specific in naming the kind of Libertarianism involved (by this reading, Libertarian Socialism aka Voluntary Regional Collectivism, particularly of the 1960s America New Left inspired Libertarian Socialism) it would be helpful. Second, it seems like what's being referred to here is more about outlook and ethos vs actual voting patterns, especially if you don't dig very deep in terms of positions. You can "think commune and hate hierarchy" and still "vote Democrat" because of social issues; perhaps thought of as a kind of counterpart to the Republican "what's the matter with Kansas?" phenomenon (vote against your personal economic interest on the basis of cultural issues.)

That's my reading. Overall, I think the article was quite good (terminology and title aside.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

Re: How Silicon Valley became "The Man"

#16

Post by krisdol »

dkuntz2 wrote: post #5
rayiner wrote: post #2

The answer to the third question is great: "A legacy from the communalist movement that I think is pernicious is a turning away from politics, a turning toward the self as the basis of political change, of social action. I think that’s something you see all through the Valley. The information technology industry feeds off it because information technologies can so easily be aimed at satisfying individual needs. You s…

The traditional libertarian viewpoint isn't that the government shouldn't use the money it has to foster innovation, or that the government shouldn't have any money to use for anything, or even that the government should be tiny. It's that the government should be more decentralized. And while the libertarians in the US today have a large number of differences with the more historic libertarians, some of the historic…

When a few individuals own all the land other individuals have to choose between selling themselves short for others' gain, or starving. The whole anti-authoritarian thing goes out the window when property laws need enforcement.

Re: How Silicon Valley became "The Man"

#17

Post by nickpinkston »

_delirium wrote: post #3
rayiner wrote: post #2

The answer to the third question is great: "A legacy from the communalist movement that I think is pernicious is a turning away from politics, a turning toward the self as the basis of political change, of social action. I think that’s something you see all through the Valley. The information technology industry feeds off it because information technologies can so easily be aimed at satisfying individual needs. You s…

There's a lot of libertarian rhetoric, but are actual libertarians really widespread in the Valley? To me it comes across as a loud but very small minority— albeit perhaps also one that's disproportionately represented among those at the very top (perhaps part of why it's so loud). Someone like Peter Thiel might be a libertarian-conservative politically, but the average middle-class techie seems more like a middle-of…

There's a lot of liberal-tarian people, like myself, they are skeptical of many East Coast Liberal ideas, while still wanting the government (perhaps city, not fed/state gov't) help the poor, provide free education / healthcare, etc.

Re: How Silicon Valley became "The Man"

#18

Post by throwaway-65939 »

refurb wrote: post #7
rayiner wrote: post #2

The answer to the third question is great: "A legacy from the communalist movement that I think is pernicious is a turning away from politics, a turning toward the self as the basis of political change, of social action. I think that’s something you see all through the Valley. The information technology industry feeds off it because information technologies can so easily be aimed at satisfying individual needs. You s…

That's an odd argument to make against libertarians when libertarians support defense spending as a key role of government. The Highway Interstate system was driven mainly by defense needs. It's also known as the "Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways"[1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System

That's an odd argument to make against libertarians when libertarians support defense spending as a key role of government.

It is not necessary to understand libertarianism to bash libertarianism. All you need to know: they're against government doing certain things, therefore they're against government doing any and all things.

Re: How Silicon Valley became "The Man"

#19

Post by mturmon »

dkuntz2 wrote: post #5
rayiner wrote: post #2

The answer to the third question is great: "A legacy from the communalist movement that I think is pernicious is a turning away from politics, a turning toward the self as the basis of political change, of social action. I think that’s something you see all through the Valley. The information technology industry feeds off it because information technologies can so easily be aimed at satisfying individual needs. You s…

The traditional libertarian viewpoint isn't that the government shouldn't use the money it has to foster innovation, or that the government shouldn't have any money to use for anything, or even that the government should be tiny. It's that the government should be more decentralized. And while the libertarians in the US today have a large number of differences with the more historic libertarians, some of the historic…

"Even small or distributed government should foster innovation if possible."

Yes, but it turns out that big governments are much more effective at some kinds of innovation and expertise than small governments. There is no Missouri Institutes of Health, or if there is, you have not heard of them, but you sure know of and expect the best from the NIH.

So in effect, decentralization implies the a retrenchment of the scope of government.

Re: How Silicon Valley became "The Man"

#20

Post by mpyne »

refurb wrote: post #7
rayiner wrote: post #2

The answer to the third question is great: "A legacy from the communalist movement that I think is pernicious is a turning away from politics, a turning toward the self as the basis of political change, of social action. I think that’s something you see all through the Valley. The information technology industry feeds off it because information technologies can so easily be aimed at satisfying individual needs. You s…

That's an odd argument to make against libertarians when libertarians support defense spending as a key role of government. The Highway Interstate system was driven mainly by defense needs. It's also known as the "Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways"[1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System

> The Highway Interstate system was driven mainly by defense needs.

Driven, maybe, but that's not how it's used.

The Internet itself was developed mainly for defense needs too, but now people see it as a rallying point for world citizenry, human rights, etc.

Is that what we'd have to hope for with libertarianism, that enough "defense needs" pop up to allow for adequate public goods to still be created and later be mis-used for a purpose, for which it'd never have been initially funded at all?

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