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“SPDY does not clearly outperform HTTP over cellular networks” [pdf]

conferences.sigcomm.org

11–20 of 66 posts

Re: “SPDY does not clearly outperform HTTP over cellular networks” [pdf]

#11
post #2

I think QUIC is supposed to address this: http://blog.chromium.org/2013/06/experimenting-with-quic.htm...

QUIC could address it, but does not automatically do so. Specifically, it fixes the head of line blocking part of the problem. But it will still have a congestion control mechanism, and could be vulnerable to bogus retransmissions (and unnecessary lowering of the congestion window) from the extreme 3G jitter.

Re: “SPDY does not clearly outperform HTTP over cellular networks” [pdf]

#12

It doesn't matter if SPDY offers and technical improvements or not to our good, robust and lasting protcols HTTP. It's Google who is promoting it and all the "hip" hackers will rally for its cause.

That's a non sequitur - SPDY shows markedly improved performance over wired and 802.11 networks. The underlying problem discussed in the paper is down to TCP's interaction with cellular networks, and just happens to particularly punish SPDY somewhat more than HTTP.

That's something that can be worked on and indeed there's a recommendation for improving it. I'd hope something like this would be included in HTTP/2.0, or at least in a subsequent revision.

Re: “SPDY does not clearly outperform HTTP over cellular networks” [pdf]

#14

I really don't see the point of stuff like SPDY and WEBP/WEBM. They're just google doing what Microsoft did in the 1990s, setting their own proprietary 'standards' instead of working to improve things.

I really don't see the point of stuff like SPDY and WEBP/WEBM.

The former is generally more performant that HTTP, and the latter also offer benefits versus other options.

They're just google doing what Microsoft did in the 1990s, setting their own proprietary 'standards' instead of working to improve things.

This is dangerously wrong, for two reasons:

1. These are open standards. They're not proprietary. 2. What is "improving things" if not proposing open, alternative standards which solve existing problems?

Re: “SPDY does not clearly outperform HTTP over cellular networks” [pdf]

#15
post #13

I'm not a fan of SPDY at all. HTTP was simple to implement and understand. This is neither. And it matters. The small gains in performance are not worth the complexity.

Performance improvements are up to a 56% decrease in page load times over 802.11n for one of the websites examined in the paper. That's not small.

HTTP remains pretty simple, and SPDY doesn't replace it - it's essentially a wrapper around HTTP. That said, you're correct in that it requires an additional layer, and that it's no longer plaintext. It will require additional debugging tools, but I'm not convinced that's actually a problem.

Re: “SPDY does not clearly outperform HTTP over cellular networks” [pdf]

#16
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "instead of working to improve things" means that you think SPDY is not an improvement. Why do you think that?

Because it's a binary protocol without the documentation, intuitiveness, and openness of HTTP. Yes, implementations exist for $whateverWebserver, but most people who add them won't understand the protocol, and can't debug when something goes wrong.

[deleted]

Re: “SPDY does not clearly outperform HTTP over cellular networks” [pdf]

#17
post #2

I think QUIC is supposed to address this: http://blog.chromium.org/2013/06/experimenting-with-quic.htm...

thx, something like that would be great to use over packet radio & gsm. If someone builds a QUIC proxy server service with client to speed up browsing over slow links like Opera does with their always open 'socket' connection we have another choice. The Opera solution is actually quite usable. I wonder if similar performance gains can be achieved by using openvpn with udp with or without ziproxy. If so you wouldn't be locked to chrome or opera.

Re: “SPDY does not clearly outperform HTTP over cellular networks” [pdf]

#18
post #2

I think QUIC is supposed to address this: http://blog.chromium.org/2013/06/experimenting-with-quic.htm...

My understanding is QUIC is being used as a proof of concept for protocol experiments - it may be pushed towards standardisation or the the lessons from it may be pushed into other protocols

Re: “SPDY does not clearly outperform HTTP over cellular networks” [pdf]

#19
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "instead of working to improve things" means that you think SPDY is not an improvement. Why do you think that?

Because it's a binary protocol without the documentation, intuitiveness, and openness of HTTP. Yes, implementations exist for $whateverWebserver, but most people who add them won't understand the protocol, and can't debug when something goes wrong.

I'd suggest that too many developers don't understand what goes on over the wire anyway.

It's a documented binary protocol, is open and reasonably easy to understand - spdyshark will help.

Re: “SPDY does not clearly outperform HTTP over cellular networks” [pdf]

#20
Why did they take the effort to produce an entire paper, over a research question that has a simple logical answer?

The research question (sort of): Is SPDY, which was designed to make HTTP work better on connections with more bandwidth and not worse on less bandwidth, increase performance on connections with less bandwidth (and not really related more latency)?

Their answer (sort of): no, as designed SPDY only increases performance on connections with more bandwidth, and performs similar to HTTP on smaller bandwidths.

Their conclusion (sort of): TCP is not very suitable for transmitting data on high bandwidth (relatively) high latency connections, we should use a different transport layer protocol.

What your reaction should be (sort of): No shit sherlocks, that's exactly what everyone thought 15 years ago and only now the idea is picking up steam, with HTML5 including SCTP in the spec, and Google working on the QUIC effort.

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