Programmers and Painted Nails • Hacker News Board

Re: Programmers and Painted Nails

#11

Post by sdfsdf44 » Tue, Jan 07, 2014, 6:03 PM UTC

igravious wrote: post #8

scotty79 wrote: post #7

> I mean that if a woman walks into a Google mixer with long pretty hair and a skirt, people assume she works in sales. If she walks in with a ponytail and a t-shirt and jeans, people are much more likely to believe she’s a programmer. I am yet to meet a programmer that voluntarily wears a suit. So unless it's a wedding, funeral or HR hoop jumping, when I see a men in a suit I assume he is rather some kind of a sales…

Yeah, but you won't always be right - do you like being wrong some of the time because you jump to conclusions? How about deferring judgement until you interact verbally with the person? How about not using superficial visual cues to infer social and labor roles/identities? I am a straight(ish, ahem) guy who from time to time paints his nails. Q: What would you infer from that? A: Don't bother, cuz I don't fit into y…

I'm the same. I do it because I like it; nothing is implied about who I am and every actual comment I have received has been positive or neutral.

Re: Programmers and Painted Nails

#12

Post by sdfsdf44 » Tue, Jan 07, 2014, 6:07 PM UTC

bettyx1138 wrote: post #10

i think it's cute when men paint their nails.

I understand and appreciate that, but I do hope some day it will be considered as normal and acceptable as it is for a woman to. It's just self-expression, and although it may seem strange, I don't do it to stand out even though such an action naturally does cause me to, and I'd rather I was able to without being 'unusual'. I'm far more confident than when I started, but still feel self-conscious from time to time.

Re: Programmers and Painted Nails

#13

Post by scotty79 » Tue, Jan 07, 2014, 6:16 PM UTC

igravious wrote: post #8

scotty79 wrote: post #7

> I mean that if a woman walks into a Google mixer with long pretty hair and a skirt, people assume she works in sales. If she walks in with a ponytail and a t-shirt and jeans, people are much more likely to believe she’s a programmer. I am yet to meet a programmer that voluntarily wears a suit. So unless it's a wedding, funeral or HR hoop jumping, when I see a men in a suit I assume he is rather some kind of a sales…

Yeah, but you won't always be right - do you like being wrong some of the time because you jump to conclusions? How about deferring judgement until you interact verbally with the person? How about not using superficial visual cues to infer social and labor roles/identities? I am a straight(ish, ahem) guy who from time to time paints his nails. Q: What would you infer from that? A: Don't bother, cuz I don't fit into y…

> Yeah, but you won't always be right - do you like being wrong some of the time because you jump to conclusions?

Yeah. But it takes literally 5 seconds to readjust as new information comes in. If a guy in a suit turns out to be plumber I won't hesitate to ask his card if I am in need of some plumbing service at the moment. On the other hand if I'm right I'm better prepared to spot and fend off attempt to sell me something.

> How about deferring judgement until you interact verbally with the person?

It's impossible to do that without closing your eyes. You use all your senses to figure out environment around you. People are large part of it. How somebody looks, smells or sounds is an information that can allow you to predict things. If I smell alcohol from someone I don't have to wait till he speaks something coherent to decide what actions should I take.

> I am a straight(ish, ahem) guy who from time to time paints his nails. Q: What would you infer from that?

If I saw you in public with nails painted I'd just think you are daring individual. It might be positive, it might be negative. I'd be more curious but also more cautioned if I ever were to enter verbal contact with you.

Re: Programmers and Painted Nails

#14

Post by sdfsdf44 » Tue, Jan 07, 2014, 6:25 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #13

igravious wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but you won't always be right - do you like being wrong some of the time because you jump to conclusions? How about deferring judgement until you interact verbally with the person? How about not using superficial visual cues to infer social and labor roles/identities? I am a straight(ish, ahem) guy who from time to time paints his nails. Q: What would you infer from that? A: Don't bother, cuz I don't fit into y…

> Yeah, but you won't always be right - do you like being wrong some of the time because you jump to conclusions? Yeah. But it takes literally 5 seconds to readjust as new information comes in. If a guy in a suit turns out to be plumber I won't hesitate to ask his card if I am in need of some plumbing service at the moment. On the other hand if I'm right I'm better prepared to spot and fend off attempt to sell me som…

This sounds about right. People are generally aware of how they look and act and what that communicates to others; it is always possible to adjust people's perceptions through words and actions, but the initial impression is, for most people, at least partly a calculated thing.

By all means, people should look however they prefer to, and ideally many knee-jerk reactions to things would be less so, but the world isn't ideal. I strongly prefer people who do reserve their judgement of someone until a more complete perception of them has been made, but I acknowledge that it isn't something I always do, by any means. If I see someone in a suit, my snap judgement thought is very unlikely to be 'hacker' unless they are discussing or engaged in something relevant (just as it's unlikely to be 'investment banker' for someone in a band tshirt and scruffy jeans). However, I don't discount the possibility by any means.

>If I saw you in public with nails painted I'd just think you are daring individual. It might be positive, it might be negative. I'd be more curious but also more cautioned if I ever were to enter verbal contact with you.

I'd be perfectly fine with this reaction.

I realise I've probably been stereotyped about it, but as far as I can see, it's never actually affected me directly.

Re: Programmers and Painted Nails

#15

Post by collyw » Sun, Jan 19, 2014, 7:50 PM UTC

igravious wrote: post #8

scotty79 wrote: post #7

> I mean that if a woman walks into a Google mixer with long pretty hair and a skirt, people assume she works in sales. If she walks in with a ponytail and a t-shirt and jeans, people are much more likely to believe she’s a programmer. I am yet to meet a programmer that voluntarily wears a suit. So unless it's a wedding, funeral or HR hoop jumping, when I see a men in a suit I assume he is rather some kind of a sales…

Yeah, but you won't always be right - do you like being wrong some of the time because you jump to conclusions? How about deferring judgement until you interact verbally with the person? How about not using superficial visual cues to infer social and labor roles/identities? I am a straight(ish, ahem) guy who from time to time paints his nails. Q: What would you infer from that? A: Don't bother, cuz I don't fit into y…

Engineering and programming are normally not "customer facing roles". For that reason there are not many that choose to wear suits. Sales and marketing on the other hand are. As such many people in such roles will "dress up" more don't think it is unreasonable to make certain assumptions based on what people are wearing when a significant amount of the time it will be true.