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The Graver Threat of the Growing Tech Backlash

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Re: The Graver Threat of the Growing Tech Backlash

#11

Post by api »

quanticle wrote: post #9

Everything in this article comes back to housing. That's not the tech. industry's fault. The tech. industry would love to have more housing in San Francisco and the rest of the Bay Area. Housing prices have increased so quickly, and are currently at such a high level that even highly paid tech. workers are thinking twice about moving to SF. We see it often enough in the comment threads right here. The problem is that…

I turned down a really great salary offer in the Bay Area recently because it was not that great given the housing prices. Basically you'd have to offer me over $175k to even consider coming there... and even then I'd be concerned about continued real estate inflation pricing me out of any chance of getting desirable housing and paying it off in a decent amount of time.

The other thing is that in Silicon Valley you're paying for RE like it's New York but you don't live in New York. You live in a boring and IMHO rather ugly suburb. I was shocked at how bad it was... I was driving around and thinking "I cannot think of anywhere else in the USA where so much gets you so little."

Re: The Graver Threat of the Growing Tech Backlash

#12

Post by swalsh »

gum_ina_package wrote: post #7

Everyone sees the success, but no one sees what it took to get there. They don't see the intense, competitive interviews tech workers go through. They don't see the grueling comp sci/engineering coursework they do leading up to said interviews. And they definitely don't see the thousands of hours programmers put into teaching themselves new skills and technologies.

Don't overwhelm your ego here, the guy who prepared my lunch today is working harder than me. And since that job doesn't pay enough to survive, he has two of them.

You get paid more, not because you "worked hard" or "studied harder"... its because you have a line of work that both creates a shit ton of value, and the supply and demand for people with our skill sets works out in our favor.

Re: The Graver Threat of the Growing Tech Backlash

#13

Post by drhayes9 »

gum_ina_package wrote: post #10
quanticle wrote: post #9

Everything in this article comes back to housing. That's not the tech. industry's fault. The tech. industry would love to have more housing in San Francisco and the rest of the Bay Area. Housing prices have increased so quickly, and are currently at such a high level that even highly paid tech. workers are thinking twice about moving to SF. We see it often enough in the comment threads right here. The problem is that…

Spot on. Not trying to be cliche, but big government is what's causing these problems. If they would allow high rises to be built, we wouldn't be seeing these issues.

I don't see the big government argument here. If the residents of San Francisco are voting to keep the city a certain way, how does that align with traditional "big government" narratives of over-regulation, bloated spending, etc?

You could say the residents of SF are using city regulations a certain way, but that doesn't imply big government to me.

Re: The Graver Threat of the Growing Tech Backlash

#14

Post by apsec112 »

If tech companies pay their workers generously, then it's their fault for rising rents. But if they are misers and pay little, then it's their fault for mistreating working people (see: Apple and Foxconn).

If the tech companies all move to San Francisco, then it's their fault for changing the fabric of local communities. But if they leave San Francisco, why, it's their fault for crashing the local economy.

If the tech companies try to establish a libertarian utopia, this shows they don't care about average people. But if they stay in SF and try to work within the current system, well, that's the nefarious influence of money in politics.

If the tech companies send buses to pick up their workers, this is terrible because it drives up housing costs. But if they don't send buses, why, traffic would be so bad that 280 and 101 would grind to a halt, and clearly that's the tech companies' fault.

"Friedrich Spee von Langenfeld, a priest who heard the confessions of condemned witches, wrote in 1631 the Cautio Criminalis ('prudence in criminal cases') in which he bitingly described the decision tree for condemning accused witches: If the witch had led an evil and improper life, she was guilty; if she had led a good and proper life, this too was a proof, for witches dissemble and try to appear especially virtuous. After the woman was put in prison: if she was afraid, this proved her guilt; if she was not afraid, this proved her guilt, for witches characteristically pretend innocence and wear a bold front. Or on hearing of a denunciation of witchcraft against her, she might seek flight or remain; if she ran, that proved her guilt; if she remained, the devil had detained her so she could not get away." - http://lesswrong.com/lw/ii/conservation_of_expected_evidence...

Re: The Graver Threat of the Growing Tech Backlash

#17

Post by memracom »

This is yet another reason why startups should avoid Silicon Valley. Years ago, the investment climate in SV really was different than elsewhere but that has now changed. Not only are there tech VCs and Angels in other US cities, but they are found throughout the world. You might still have concentrations in particular places, for instance in Canada most action is in Vancouver, Waterloo and Toronto, but that is a far cry from the days when SV was the only place.

Best place to start a new company is where you are right now. That is what Atlassian did and when it made sense for them to be in a different place, they just moved. Second best place is any city where there is a concentration of tech industry but that could be in Vancouver, Berlin, Moscow (Skolkovo) or London (Old Street). You have a choice.

And if your business is growing and beginning to have a local impact, and you are senior management there, then you really should start thinking about how you can improve the local area for everyone, which is a traditional activity of larger successful companies. Spend money on civic projects. If you need better bus service, lobby for it rather than sidestepping the competition. Politics is a different game from business and if you fail to recognize that and act appropriately, then you deserve the brickbats that will be thrown at you.

I'm reminded of when IBM was the big bad boy, and Microsoft was the cool new upstart. Then Microsoft became the bad boy and Google was the cool new upstart. From the sound of things, Google is now sliding into bad boy territory.

Re: The Graver Threat of the Growing Tech Backlash

#18

Post by charleslmunger »

"Ellis Act evictions, used to eject all tenants from a building to clear the way for a sale, soared 170 percent in the last three years."

This statistic is incredibly misleading - the absolute increase was only 73 evictions. [1]

“From Google buses invading the neighborhoods, to the evictions of elders, to the very real effects of speculator-fueled evictions, the tech industry’s reaction has been shameful,” said Tony Robles, an organizer with Senior and Disability Action who joined the Oakland demonstration, in an email.

This can also be read as "Large companies pay employees too much money and provide too many benefits."

[1] http://www.chicagonow.com/getting-real/2014/01/san-francisco...

Re: The Graver Threat of the Growing Tech Backlash

#19

Post by rodrodrod »

> Ellis Act evictions, used to eject all tenants from a building to clear the way for a sale, soared 170 percent in the last three years.

For some context, that's an increase of 73 evictions per year (from 43 in 2010 to 116 in 2013[0]). Of course, 73 in the absolute doesn't have the same ring to it as 170%, so it's clear to see why the data is presented the way it is. I think it's rather disingenuous and makes that particular problem seem much dire than it might really be.

[0] http://www.sfbos.org/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=47...

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