Fired? Speak No Evil • Hacker News Board

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#11

Post by Broken_Hippo » Fri, Jan 03, 2014, 2:45 PM UTC

300bps wrote: post #5

If I don’t agree to this nondisparagement clause, I will not receive my severance — in this case, the equivalent of two weeks of pay. For two weeks pay, I would not agree to anything. For two years pay, I would consider it. I had no idea that professionals were given such ridiculous offers and expected to sign off on them. At my last job, I was guaranteed 1 year of severance in the event of losing my job. Fortunately…

The choice of refusing money would be nice: Unfortunately, this type of severance isn't only happening in professional circles: Hourly call center employees (I'm sure among others) are being asked to sign the same type of thing, and these are $10-$11 an hour, high turnover jobs. This situation completely changes the power balance.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#12

Post by CaveTech » Fri, Jan 03, 2014, 2:46 PM UTC

crusso wrote: post #4

The company is offering extra weeks of pay in return for not attacking them. Why is this different than getting paid to do your job or meet a contract in other respects?

It must be different in California, because here in Ontario companies are legally required to give at least 2 weeks severance in most instances.

If an employer isn't required to do the same in California then there's not much to complain about.

Is this the case?

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#13

Post by gnu8 » Fri, Jan 03, 2014, 2:46 PM UTC

300bps wrote: post #5

If I don’t agree to this nondisparagement clause, I will not receive my severance — in this case, the equivalent of two weeks of pay. For two weeks pay, I would not agree to anything. For two years pay, I would consider it. I had no idea that professionals were given such ridiculous offers and expected to sign off on them. At my last job, I was guaranteed 1 year of severance in the event of losing my job. Fortunately…

For two weeks pay, I would not agree to anything. For two years pay, I would consider it.

I think you have it exactly right, this is an opportunity to counter-offer. Find out how many months of salary the non-disparagment clause is worth to the company.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#14

Post by LanceH » Fri, Jan 03, 2014, 2:47 PM UTC

crusso wrote: post #4

The company is offering extra weeks of pay in return for not attacking them. Why is this different than getting paid to do your job or meet a contract in other respects?

Two weeks severance isn't traditionally "extra pay". It's generally a professional courtesy that they are now withholding until the no-longer-employee agrees to an everlasting requirement.

The flip side: Offer two weeks notice, but only if they agree to speak of you on your terms afterward. No company signs that. They would be liable for anything anyone in the company ever said about you, forever.

It's also exceptionally vague and even if it only applies to lies spoken by the employee, it can still have a chilling effect on the truth.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#15

Post by mathattack » Fri, Jan 03, 2014, 2:47 PM UTC

My 2 cents... The non-disparagement is a trade. You trade not saying anything bad about them publicly, and they agree not to say anything bad about you during a reference check. You get a positive (or perhaps generic "He worked here from X to Y, that's all we can say") reference, and they don't have to worry about a book coming out trashing them. The amount of cash is secondary. The real thing is, if you want to remain on good terms with them, you sign it. If not, you don't.

I can't imagine a company offering severance nowadays without including this. 2 weeks may be negotiable, but this won't be.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#16

Post by willvarfar » Fri, Jan 03, 2014, 2:48 PM UTC

bertil wrote: post #2

I’m puzzled by one thing, if risk management is the concern: why not replace that clause by a candid, confidential conversation on what is wrong with the company? Any significant issue most likely affects more than one employee, including remaining ones. It sounds typical of a culture driven by lawyers, rather than leaders.

Ah the notorious "exit interview"?

Steer well well clear of them too! http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/haexit.htm

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#17

Post by silverbax88 » Fri, Jan 03, 2014, 2:50 PM UTC

mathattack wrote: post #15

My 2 cents... The non-disparagement is a trade. You trade not saying anything bad about them publicly, and they agree not to say anything bad about you during a reference check. You get a positive (or perhaps generic "He worked here from X to Y, that's all we can say") reference, and they don't have to worry about a book coming out trashing them. The amount of cash is secondary. The real thing is, if you want to rema…

Actually, legally, they cannot say anything more than "He worked here from X to Y, that's all we can say". You don't need any agreement from them.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#18

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 03, 2014, 2:51 PM UTC

crusso wrote: post #4

The company is offering extra weeks of pay in return for not attacking them. Why is this different than getting paid to do your job or meet a contract in other respects?

[deleted]

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#19

Post by 300bps » Fri, Jan 03, 2014, 2:53 PM UTC

mathattack wrote: post #15

My 2 cents... The non-disparagement is a trade. You trade not saying anything bad about them publicly, and they agree not to say anything bad about you during a reference check. You get a positive (or perhaps generic "He worked here from X to Y, that's all we can say") reference, and they don't have to worry about a book coming out trashing them. The amount of cash is secondary. The real thing is, if you want to rema…

The funny thing is the article is squarely aimed at the non-disparagement clause which to me is not very interesting. But the big deal is actually the "release of all claims" clause. Essentially they're trying to get a "get out of jail free" card for any unlawful actions they may have taken as part of your termination.

Even if they did nothing unlawful (ex: terminate everyone over 40 years old to bring in younger cheaper workers, terminate everyone of a particular race or other protected class, etc) terminating someone can often bring frivolous claims that can cost the company hundreds of thousands of dollars. Assuredly, their offer of two weeks severance is a "it's worth a shot" attempt to see who is dumb enough to take it.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#20

Post by alextingle » Fri, Jan 03, 2014, 2:54 PM UTC

I wouldn't sign that any more than I'd sign a contract that gave the company everything that I produce in my own time. Both are attempts by the corporation to dissolve my agency as a human being.

The only right answer is no.