> Treehouse CEO Ryan Carson declares “A computer science degree is a rip off…I know because I have one.” Perhaps his CS degree was from a college which didn’t have a very good program or maybe his focus has been web development where you rarely need computer science. According to wikipedia: > In 2000, he graduated from Colorado State University with a Computer Science degree I suspect, like with most fields, that the…
Code != computer science
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Re: Code != computer science
#12Speaking from experience, this is true. You also don't really know when true CS is useful until you run into it. I graduated with the equivalent of a minor in CS. When I started coding for an web-based gaming start-up in 2007, it was mostly irrelevant. You don't need a CS degree to learn Ruby on Rails, nor is it necessarily useful (beyond your basic intro courses) to have taken CS courses. Flash-forward a year, after…
Re: Code != computer science
#13As you work with more and more people in this industry, you frequently run into people without a degree, or, more importantly, no true know how, as I do stand by the fact that it's not required to have a degree to learn this stuff, who behave as if they are experts regardless of their poor mental model of how computers work.
It's important for these people to know what they don't know. Reminding people that Code is not CS is a good way to make that happen.
Re: Code != computer science
#14Re: Code != computer science
#15I did an undergrad in CS (Columbia) - in retrospect I should only have minored in CS. I'm not sure it's worth the workload! You will have _no_ free time and get reamed in GPA Very math-heavy and the project based classes were brutal.
Re: Code != computer science
#16When I was 16, I was obsessed with 3D graphics (hilariously primitive back 30 years ago). I learned programming to create , rotate, translate, and shade objects in 3D space. I learned computer science to understand how you manage vector lists, matrix math, and strange recursion algorithms. I learned that programming is computer science applied. Sort of like how math is a tool to apply calculus to real work problems.…
Re: Code != computer science
#17in a data structure class,you learn the basic structures like PODs,structs,vectors and linked lists.
in algorithm class,you learn various basic sorting algorithms plus the big O notation and thats pretty much it.
Then you will take a few physics classes,then chemistry classes,then maybe calculus one and two,then probably discrete mathematics class,one or two writing class,if you a lucky,maybe a single semester of operating system class.
you may learn the basics on haskell in one class,the basic of java in another,maybe assembly in another class and you get your degree.Basically,you will leave school knowing only the basics of a bunch of things but not enough of anything.
The above it how it felt to me as a CS major.
Re: Code != computer science
#18Customers rarely care what we code or computer science in
...and have seen many, many 1.0's, shelfware, etc.
A CS grad from a top-flight school with excellent experience is worth their weight in gold, at least on teams of multiple people developing big systems - you want at least one, they will take care of data design, software architecture, etc., and likely cause your code to be more robust, more maintainable, etc.
But motivated college grads (I'm Canadian, not sure what the US term would be), talented engineers, and autodidacts can crank out code like nobody's business. I don't know that I'd want to built a multi-year "core services" library out of it, but PoCs, MVPs, 1.0's, and demoware? Why not? And the top-flight CS grad might be wasted there.
I'm torn because I care about quality, but really high quality only matters for the really long-lived system, the health-and-safety-critical system, and the system that must survive on its own with minimal human intervention and maintenance.
Were I building a radiation control for healthcare, I would want electrical engineers and CS grads from top-flight systems. Ditto military avionics.
If I was building apps, apps, apps, servers built atop well-architected OSS libraries, etc., I'd want code, fast, and I'd balance quality Vs lifetime to maximize profit, and probably hire less experienced, less well trained devs who "give good face", understand requirements, and code fast.
The libraries themselves? Good question....
I don't have a conclusion. But j45 is right, customers don't care so much - but they don't want 3AM bugs, either. It's a trade-off.
Re: Code != computer science
#19Re: Code != computer science
#20There can also be a bit of an attitude, like the person is thinking "of course this is good, I went to Stanford". But maybe that's my imagination. Another explanation is that these people are just so good that they are able to read messy and convoluted code no problem, and us mortals need to step up our game.
On the other hand, these people would easily be able to reason about complex performance and security issues beyond me. I think that the hardcore CS issues are a science, while writing clean code in a web framework, browser, and API design is more of a craft.
If you hire too many computer scientists, your code base could be full of fascinating technical tricks, but creaky and hard to work with. Too many craftsmen, and you'll get stuck on simple problems. It's a balance.
EDIT: Downvotes? Please explain. Perhaps I am not able to fully comprehend the issues at hand.