NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#11

Post by salient » Mon, Dec 16, 2013, 2:31 AM UTC

rurban wrote: post #2

Again he is spinning/lying about the word "collecting". Their interpretation of collection is still collecting + looking at it, while the rest of world still interprets collection as collection.

Yes, they keep saying that as if all the collected data wasn't already "looked at" through keyword alerts or similar systems, or that they wouldn't give themselves permission to look manually at someone's data anyway.

Also last I checked, the 4th Amendment prohibits unreasonable searches (I would think searching/fishing for elements in the data through autonomous systems, is still called "searching", no?) and seizures (i.e. collections).

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#12

Post by rrich » Mon, Dec 16, 2013, 2:32 AM UTC

olefoo wrote: post #4

The fact that Clapper is still in office months after it was revealed that he had in point of fact lied to congress during sworn testimony should tell you everything you need to know. The surveillance machinery formerly known as Total Information Awareness is being built and fielded with or without the consent of the governed and most definitely without the consent of those of us who don't happen to be "US Persons".…

For me, this is probably the most worrisome evidence of the current state of the government. I know FDR said there is nothing to fear but fear itself, but I fear nothing more than the wizard of oz, and I fear the wizard and NSA are one and the same. Back to programming this stuff scares the crap out of me.

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#13

Post by aagha » Mon, Dec 16, 2013, 2:41 AM UTC

olefoo wrote: post #4

The fact that Clapper is still in office months after it was revealed that he had in point of fact lied to congress during sworn testimony should tell you everything you need to know. The surveillance machinery formerly known as Total Information Awareness is being built and fielded with or without the consent of the governed and most definitely without the consent of those of us who don't happen to be "US Persons".…

Fully agreed. What's sadder is that Congress doesn't seem to have demanded anything be done to punish him.

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#14

Post by dephex » Mon, Dec 16, 2013, 2:44 AM UTC

"He was taking a technical examination for potential employment at NSA; he used his system administrator privileges to go into the account of the NSA employee who was administering that test, and he took both questions and the answers, and used them to pass the test."

WHAT? He was a potential employee at the NSA but was already a system administrator, guys. That's the only reason this all happened - because he's a liar, cheater and thief! Down with Snowden!

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#15

Post by e12e » Mon, Dec 16, 2013, 2:45 AM UTC

rrich wrote: post #12

olefoo wrote: post #4

The fact that Clapper is still in office months after it was revealed that he had in point of fact lied to congress during sworn testimony should tell you everything you need to know. The surveillance machinery formerly known as Total Information Awareness is being built and fielded with or without the consent of the governed and most definitely without the consent of those of us who don't happen to be "US Persons".…

For me, this is probably the most worrisome evidence of the current state of the government. I know FDR said there is nothing to fear but fear itself, but I fear nothing more than the wizard of oz, and I fear the wizard and NSA are one and the same. Back to programming this stuff scares the crap out of me.

To further fan the embers of your fear, please enjoy:

[edit: title of link "Logo of New NRO Spy Satellite: An Octopus Engulfing the World with the Words “Nothing is Beyond Our Reach” Underneath"] http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/new-u-s-spy-satellite-...

and:

["Top 10 Most Sinister PSYOPS Mission Patches"] http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/top-10-most-sinist...

I find it interesting (and sad) how the last few months have shifted my perspective on Bruce Sterling's "Zenith Angle" from leaning more towards satire, to leaning more towards hard sci-fi/telling the "truth" with fiction.

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#16

Post by mpyne » Mon, Dec 16, 2013, 2:46 AM UTC

salient wrote: post #11

rurban wrote: post #2

Again he is spinning/lying about the word "collecting". Their interpretation of collection is still collecting + looking at it, while the rest of world still interprets collection as collection.

Yes, they keep saying that as if all the collected data wasn't already "looked at" through keyword alerts or similar systems, or that they wouldn't give themselves permission to look manually at someone's data anyway. Also last I checked, the 4th Amendment prohibits unreasonable searches (I would think searching/fishing for elements in the data through autonomous systems, is still called "searching", no?) and seizure…

4th Amendment prohibits unreasonable searches of persons, houses, papers, and effects.

It has never prohibited the government from doing other searches, otherwise government agencies would not be able to subpoena business records about you from third parties.

Sometimes Congress passes separate laws adding a specific requirement to obtain a warrant before doing a certain type of search, and the Supreme Court has also acted to expand 4th Amendment protections to include 'reasonable expectation of privacy' (concerning a phone booth conversation in an otherwise public place) but even in that case the Supreme Court specifically abrogated the concept of a general "right to privacy".

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#17

Post by pekk » Mon, Dec 16, 2013, 2:52 AM UTC

e12e wrote: post #15

rrich wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, this is probably the most worrisome evidence of the current state of the government. I know FDR said there is nothing to fear but fear itself, but I fear nothing more than the wizard of oz, and I fear the wizard and NSA are one and the same. Back to programming this stuff scares the crap out of me.

To further fan the embers of your fear, please enjoy: [edit: title of link "Logo of New NRO Spy Satellite: An Octopus Engulfing the World with the Words “Nothing is Beyond Our Reach” Underneath"] http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/new-u-s-spy-satellite-... and: ["Top 10 Most Sinister PSYOPS Mission Patches"] http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/top-10-most-sinist... I find it interesting (and sad) how the las…

The thread about that patch discussed how typical it is to have crazy over-the-top patches, it's not new at all

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#18

Post by viraptor » Mon, Dec 16, 2013, 2:54 AM UTC

foxhop wrote: post #6

It irritates me when they use the term "taken" or "lost" when referring to the data that was leaked or copied. The verb taken works best for physical document. Lost would mean that the physical document was taken or stolen and is not replaceable.

That battle was already lost once regarding piracy. According to the media it's not copyright infringement, copying, or duplication. It's stealing the movie. This allows pseudo-advertisements like "you wouldn't steal a car" to exist. (I would definitely copy a car is I could!)

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#19

Post by wikiburner » Mon, Dec 16, 2013, 3:12 AM UTC

Does anyone have any good links to information on the "BIOS" attack the NSA claims to have thwarted?

To hear the head of the NSA tell it, China was seriously getting ready to launch WWIII on the Internet, which I find pretty surprising.

Re: NSA speaks out on Snowden, spying [video]

#20

Post by proofofconcept » Mon, Dec 16, 2013, 3:13 AM UTC

tmuir wrote: post #7

This was public relations, plain and simple. Paint Snowden like a weirdo, ask softball question after softball question, give vague hints about the scary threats that deem this all necessary, and blindly trust the answers of the guy in charge of the entire operation, as if he had no incentive whatsoever to mislead anyone. Then wrap it all up with "Just how did we get this access that no other news agency could?" Gee,…

At the very least, it's encouraging that the NSA feels the need to do keep up this sort of damage control because it suggests that people in the agency feel its public image continues to be damaged (or at least threatened) by the leaks. I doubt they would be actively trying to massage public opinion like this if the story had died by now, or if only a negligible portion of the public cared.