Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

america.aljazeera.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 115 posts

Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#11

Post by mschuster91 »

seivan wrote: post #7
EliRivers wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is an ultra-extreme feminist? Given that feminism is the advocation of social and political equality twixt genders, what is extreme feminism? What's the difference between social and political equality, and extreme social and political equality? How can two things that are equal be even more equal?

Those feminists who hate Trans-people. They are the ultra-extreme feminists.

Such feminists exist?! Please tell me you're joking. That's even more horrifying than Alice Schwarzer...

Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#12

Post by hobs »

EliRivers wrote: post #5
mschuster91 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring to the kind of people like Alice Schwarzer, who thinks for example that all prostitution is inherently bad for the women and that there cannot be anyone working in prostitution out of his/her own will, or those "womyn" folks who think they have to change the word "woman" because it contains "man"... this is just ridiculous. Also, by providing just-for-women courses in tech, for example, you're creating…

Well that's not feminism. Sounds like someone who wants to discredit feminism has hung a whole lot of other things on it, hoping to slur feminism by association.

While you are correct that people looking to discredit feminism often cast aspersions and claim that xyz behavior is the work of the feminist movement, which it is clearly not, there are plenty of self proclaimed feminists who are nutters. I doubt they want to discredit feminism, but by their acts they certainly fall into what people might call "extreme feminism". I call them what they are, which is man hating. Feminism (as I know it) is about establishing both sexes on equal footing.

A prime example of the nutters below; If you are not familiar with Dworkin, she is famous for many stupid, stupid things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Dworkin#Intercourse

"In the book, she argues that all heterosexual sex in our patriarchal society is coercive and degrading to women, and sexual penetration may by its very nature doom women to inferiority and submission, and "may be immune to reform""

Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#13

Post by brazzy »

EliRivers wrote: post #9
brazzy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given that feminism is the advocation of social and political equality twixt genders, what is extreme feminism? People who don't define it that way. Or people who (as in pretty much any controversity) feel compelled to see everyone who doesn't agree with them as an enemy to be taken down.

People who don't define it that way. Well, if we're going to just redefine words we can say anything. I hate those ultra-vegetarians insisting that static typing is the only way to go. In the face of people redefining words to mean whatever they want, all I can do is suggest that without a clear definition, communication becomes meaningless anyway because I will just redefine "feminist" to mean "a kind of blancmange…

So who gets to make the official definition of what "feminism" means? And how do you enforce that nobody uses it any other way?

Good luck with that... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_prescription

Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#14

Post by gaius »

EliRivers wrote: post #3
mschuster91 wrote: post #2

As much as I can't stand a lot of the ultra-extremist feminists out there in the internet, this kind of behaviour (doxxing, cyberhunting) is beyond unacceptable, it's dangerous to society. Anyone who ever has engaged in "slut shaming" or whatever the current term is for hunting down/doxxing activists, please go, take a 9mm and shoot yourself. And to Google/FB: please, make it possible for victims of doxxing/cyberhunt…

What is an ultra-extreme feminist? Given that feminism is the advocation of social and political equality twixt genders, what is extreme feminism? What's the difference between social and political equality, and extreme social and political equality? How can two things that are equal be even more equal?

Here you go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luce_Irigaray

See her views on general relativity and fluid dynamics (both of which are apparently inherently sexist).

Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#15

Post by [deleted] »

hobs wrote: post #12
EliRivers wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's not feminism. Sounds like someone who wants to discredit feminism has hung a whole lot of other things on it, hoping to slur feminism by association.

While you are correct that people looking to discredit feminism often cast aspersions and claim that xyz behavior is the work of the feminist movement, which it is clearly not, there are plenty of self proclaimed feminists who are nutters. I doubt they want to discredit feminism, but by their acts they certainly fall into what people might call "extreme feminism". I call them what they are, which is man hating. Femin…

[deleted]

Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#16

Post by mikecane »

mschuster91 wrote: post #11
seivan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those feminists who hate Trans-people. They are the ultra-extreme feminists.

Such feminists exist?! Please tell me you're joking. That's even more horrifying than Alice Schwarzer...

Yes, they exist. I Follow people on Twitter who have made me aware of that issue. There's one prominent columnist in particular whose name I can't recall that seems to have it in for trans people and restrooms, for example.

Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#17

Post by mikecane »

This article ties in with the recent Block change on Twitter. See all that vile material posted? Now imagine having that tweeted to you on a daily basis from multiple fake accounts. This is why the change to Block mattered. Because of vile driven sociopaths of the type displayed in that article.

Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#18

Post by JumpCrisscross »

>A lawsuit was always an option. Websites aren't liable for what their users do, but it’s possible to subpoena for the identity of your online harasser and haul him or her into court on civil charges like defamation or intentional infliction of emotional distress. But Chen and Hamm didn’t want to spend more time, money or energy on the problem. They just wanted it to go away.

A lawsuit is precisely how you make it "go away". Yes, the police should have pursued the criminal complaint, but lacking official action private action should be taken.

Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#19

Post by mschuster91 »

mikecane wrote: post #17

This article ties in with the recent Block change on Twitter. See all that vile material posted? Now imagine having that tweeted to you on a daily basis from multiple fake accounts. This is why the change to Block mattered. Because of vile driven sociopaths of the type displayed in that article.

You as the victim can't see the stuff any more. May help your psyche, but it doesn't stop other twitterers or Google indexing the stuff.

Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#20

Post by girvo »

EliRivers wrote: post #5
mschuster91 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring to the kind of people like Alice Schwarzer, who thinks for example that all prostitution is inherently bad for the women and that there cannot be anyone working in prostitution out of his/her own will, or those "womyn" folks who think they have to change the word "woman" because it contains "man"... this is just ridiculous. Also, by providing just-for-women courses in tech, for example, you're creating…

Well that's not feminism. Sounds like someone who wants to discredit feminism has hung a whole lot of other things on it, hoping to slur feminism by association.

I get what you're trying to say, but the people were discussing self identify as feminists. And IMO poison the well for actual feminists.
Post reply on HN