Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

decomplecting.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 63 posts

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#11

Post by amartya916 »

bsirkia wrote: post #2

Interesting take. I'm curious how you respond to the counterpoints I usually hear to this argument: 1) Apple is creating a quality filter for $99, one that seems to be successful comparing the aggregate quality of apps on iOS vs. Android. 2) Yes, to test on your own device it's $99, but XCode is free and has all the simulators you need. If you're willing to build an entire app from scratch and invest that much time,…

Apple can do a lot better, in fact all these counterpoints you mention are tripe, let me elaborate:

a. $100 (this 99 bullshit annoys me) is a pretty big investment for a student. A common argument is that if one is able to afford Apple hardware -- i.e. the Mac and a mobile device -- this $100 fee is puny in comparison. Not true. One can get an iPod touch for $200 and a Mac for $600 (Mac Mini). With a little more effort, e.g. trawling classifieds, one can get second hand hardware for cheaper. So the developer fee ends up being north of 12.5% of cost of ownership, and that's just for a year, it doubles to 25% if you use the hardware for 2 years, and so on. N.B. Even when parents buy kids their computers, this percentage argument stands. The simple point is, if someone wants to program their own device, why not let them do it? Why should they have to pay a 100 bucks?

b. The owner of the device (talking mobile here), should have the right to install whatever the fuck he or she wishes to install. Okay, do not open the door for people to do so by mistake, and have basic authentication. It should be trivial for Apple. Any device with an apple id tied to it, can and should allow the owner to plug in a cable to install a custom app. Make people enter Apple id's twice, once on XCode and once on the device itself, if that's what it takes (I bet there are easier solutions, but this came to mind first)

c. Now, for someone wishing to sell an App in the App Store, charge the $99. I think taking care of App distribution, developer documentation/videos, app vetting by App Store employees etc. would then justify the $99 fee and perhaps act as a filter.

P.S. I don't buy the filter thing either. Over time, the Android App store now has the same high quality popular apps as the Apple App Store (hold on, I know that tablet apps are still better on the iOS platform, but the big names are getting there)

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#12

Post by stbullard »

insaneirish wrote: post #6

Why is "learning to code" equated with "writing an app for iOS"? Walk before you run. There is more opportunity than ever for someone to get access to free software (BSD, illumos, Linux) and cheap hardware (Raspberry Pi, BeagleBoard) and do whatever the heck they want. "Coding" needn't be synonymous with an iPhone or iPad.

For that matter, write some HTML and JavaScript and make a thing that works on just about anything. Distribute it to your friends for free. "Coding" needn't be synonymous with native app development.

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#13

Post by bsirkia »

amartya916 wrote: post #11
bsirkia wrote: post #2

Interesting take. I'm curious how you respond to the counterpoints I usually hear to this argument: 1) Apple is creating a quality filter for $99, one that seems to be successful comparing the aggregate quality of apps on iOS vs. Android. 2) Yes, to test on your own device it's $99, but XCode is free and has all the simulators you need. If you're willing to build an entire app from scratch and invest that much time,…

Apple can do a lot better, in fact all these counterpoints you mention are tripe, let me elaborate: a. $100 (this 99 bullshit annoys me) is a pretty big investment for a student. A common argument is that if one is able to afford Apple hardware -- i.e. the Mac and a mobile device -- this $100 fee is puny in comparison. Not true. One can get an iPod touch for $200 and a Mac for $600 (Mac Mini). With a little more effo…

a) $100 is steep, but $25 on Android seems percentage-wise much higher, considering you can get Android devices for so little (you can probably get an old device for less than $25 on classifieds). I don't think the device-to-development percentage fee really holds up. Absolutely, yes, $100 is more than $25, and I think Apple should lower it just to encourage more people to try it out. But then again, free XCode with all simulators isn't enough to try it out?

b) I totally agree with this point, this does really bother me. If I'm willing to take the chance of bricking my iPhone, that should be my right. I've also been trying to do some testing with the new Bluetooth Low Energy tech, and not being able to unplug my phone from Xcode is pretty damn annoying.

c) I can dig it.

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#14

Post by adamnemecek »

insaneirish wrote: post #6

Why is "learning to code" equated with "writing an app for iOS"? Walk before you run. There is more opportunity than ever for someone to get access to free software (BSD, illumos, Linux) and cheap hardware (Raspberry Pi, BeagleBoard) and do whatever the heck they want. "Coding" needn't be synonymous with an iPhone or iPad.

I'm guessing because today Obama said something along those lines.

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#15

Post by [deleted] »

amartya916 wrote: post #11
bsirkia wrote: post #2

Interesting take. I'm curious how you respond to the counterpoints I usually hear to this argument: 1) Apple is creating a quality filter for $99, one that seems to be successful comparing the aggregate quality of apps on iOS vs. Android. 2) Yes, to test on your own device it's $99, but XCode is free and has all the simulators you need. If you're willing to build an entire app from scratch and invest that much time,…

Apple can do a lot better, in fact all these counterpoints you mention are tripe, let me elaborate: a. $100 (this 99 bullshit annoys me) is a pretty big investment for a student. A common argument is that if one is able to afford Apple hardware -- i.e. the Mac and a mobile device -- this $100 fee is puny in comparison. Not true. One can get an iPod touch for $200 and a Mac for $600 (Mac Mini). With a little more effo…

[deleted]

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#16

Post by bilbo0s »

So have the kids learn to code on Android.

Problem solved.

There is no "Obstacle to America's Future" here. The point is for every kid to learn to code... not for every kid to build a business publishing iPhone Apps. Why does it matter WHAT they code on???

I learned on an Apple II e, why? Because that's the computer that was donated to my school. It was old and haggared and no... my programs were not compatible with the PC dos or that cool, slick new "Windows" thingy everyone was talking about at the time. And CERTAINLY nothing compared to the little Mac that was out.

But so what?

I still made a pretty cool Angry Birds style game on it using only hline and vline. It taught me the basics... that was the point.

If kids want to publish apps... well... publish them to Android. There is nothing wrong with that.

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#17

Post by navs »

Is $100 really that expensive? I'm quite broke, being a freelancer with irregular income, but even I could save $100. It's $100/yr not $100/app or per month. Also, it's one ecosystem out of many. Don't like it...can't afford it...don't build for it. You can still code without having to build a product or create a startup.

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#18

Post by Nerdfest »

bsirkia wrote: post #13
amartya916 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple can do a lot better, in fact all these counterpoints you mention are tripe, let me elaborate: a. $100 (this 99 bullshit annoys me) is a pretty big investment for a student. A common argument is that if one is able to afford Apple hardware -- i.e. the Mac and a mobile device -- this $100 fee is puny in comparison. Not true. One can get an iPod touch for $200 and a Mac for $600 (Mac Mini). With a little more effo…

a) $100 is steep, but $25 on Android seems percentage-wise much higher, considering you can get Android devices for so little (you can probably get an old device for less than $25 on classifieds). I don't think the device-to-development percentage fee really holds up. Absolutely, yes, $100 is more than $25, and I think Apple should lower it just to encourage more people to try it out. But then again, free XCode with…

The $25 mentioned for distributing apps to friends is actually only if you want to do it through the Google Play store. Your friends can install any app you give them as an APK file free.

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#19

Post by peteforde »

I'm sorry, but if you think iOS lock-in is the obstacle to America's future — not pathological consumerism, not Tea Party politics and a government that can't function well enough to pass laws, not your disappearing middle class — then you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

Sure, vendor lock-in is a drag. But let's not forget that open source software and increasingly hardware have never been stronger as a cultural movement.

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#20

Post by Nerdfest »

navs wrote: post #17

Is $100 really that expensive? I'm quite broke, being a freelancer with irregular income, but even I could save $100. It's $100/yr not $100/app or per month. Also, it's one ecosystem out of many. Don't like it...can't afford it...don't build for it. You can still code without having to build a product or create a startup.

... and seeing as you're defending Apple, I'm assuming you already had a Mac, which is also required.
Post reply on HN