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Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

thomasbell.co.uk

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Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#11

Post by mewwts »

rfnslyr wrote: post #2

What if I started a company, and all good candidates were male, and the women weren't on par? What if no women applied at all? I don't get this whole gender thing. If statistically less women apply to a STEM degree, or tech related job, how is it the fault of "white males"? White male guilt at it's finest if you ask me. If you actively see discrimination, do something about it. I actually work with a team that is 90%…

You shouldn't force equality, but actively work towards it. There's a huge difference.

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#12

Post by rfnslyr »

ForHackernews wrote: post #6
rfnslyr wrote: post #2

What if I started a company, and all good candidates were male, and the women weren't on par? What if no women applied at all? I don't get this whole gender thing. If statistically less women apply to a STEM degree, or tech related job, how is it the fault of "white males"? White male guilt at it's finest if you ask me. If you actively see discrimination, do something about it. I actually work with a team that is 90%…

> What if I started a company, and all good candidates were male, and the women weren't on par? What if no women applied at all? Then it's pretty clear you've done a bad job of advertising your job openings. Did you, perhaps, just ask for referrals among your own personal network?

I'm sorry am I supposed to go out of my way to directly extend a hand to women as well? Are they part of some other entirely exclusive development network that I haven't specifically advertised to? I reckon if we're all on the same page of development, we're frequenting the same communities, forums, and job listings.

Why not look at majors where there are nearly no men. We should start actively making men seek fashion degrees.

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#13

Post by bmelton »

rfnslyr wrote: post #2

What if I started a company, and all good candidates were male, and the women weren't on par? What if no women applied at all? I don't get this whole gender thing. If statistically less women apply to a STEM degree, or tech related job, how is it the fault of "white males"? White male guilt at it's finest if you ask me. If you actively see discrimination, do something about it. I actually work with a team that is 90%…

My daughter's in STEM, along with a few other girls, though it seems that the class is mostly male. I would wager that, at least at the middle-school level my current daughter's in, STEM involvement has more to do with the parents and less to do with the child's natural inclinations.

That isn't to say that kids don't have free will, obviously, or that they can't effect their own preferences in their lives, but I'd wager that my daughter's inclination for math and science has more to do with both of her parents having that inclination, and hence, her more frequent exposure to it.

While I tend not to worry about these sorts of things, and/or how big a deal they are, I would wager that much of this is self-perpetuating. Mothers who aren't inclined towards technology aren't able to impart technical inclination to their daughters. I couldn't swear to whether my daughter's interest in tech comes from me or my wife, but if we assume that daughters often take after their mothers, and their mothers aren't technically inclined, it's easy to say that the problem is not self-healing.

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#14

Post by lukasm »

This is extremely dangerous and often gives the opposite effect. An example is situation with universities in Sweden. There was a parity for all degrees. As a result, lots of women didn't get to uni because 50% was reserved for male, even though they had higher grades. They filled a law suit and won (European Court of Human Rights).

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#15

Post by rfnslyr »

mewwts wrote: post #11
rfnslyr wrote: post #2

What if I started a company, and all good candidates were male, and the women weren't on par? What if no women applied at all? I don't get this whole gender thing. If statistically less women apply to a STEM degree, or tech related job, how is it the fault of "white males"? White male guilt at it's finest if you ask me. If you actively see discrimination, do something about it. I actually work with a team that is 90%…

You shouldn't force equality, but actively work towards it. There's a huge difference.

I totally agree, and OP went about this the dumbest way. Didn't go through with a job because it's all white males... so he's going to be replaced with another of the type he's actively trying to avoid.

Why not volunteer at some womens development workshops/conferences/classes/groups? I've seen them around.

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#16

Post by sliverstorm »

rayiner wrote: post #10
sliverstorm wrote: post #4

How any company can expect to build a sustainable long-term business when not one of their 14 Partners/Advisors is female is beyond me. This piece seems... I don't know the right word for it. It's not reverse sexism. But anyway, even if the world was completely un-sexist and genders were perfectly equal, would we not expect simply due to chance to see some boards with 14 members of only one gender? So while it is con…

> But anyway, even if the world was completely un-sexist and genders were perfectly equal, would we not expect simply due to chance to see some boards with 14 members of only one gender? A board of 14 with only males does not logically prove that there must exist discrimination. It's also true that we as humans aren't limited to only acting on provable logical conclusions, but are entitled to make inferences from fac…

My point has nothing to do with whether this particular board was established under discrimination, and everything to do with the author's notion that a company cannot be successful without women on the board. I have nothing against women on the board, but I think it is intuitively obvious that neither gender is a prerequisite for success.

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#19

Post by fantnn »

ForHackernews wrote: post #6
rfnslyr wrote: post #2

What if I started a company, and all good candidates were male, and the women weren't on par? What if no women applied at all? I don't get this whole gender thing. If statistically less women apply to a STEM degree, or tech related job, how is it the fault of "white males"? White male guilt at it's finest if you ask me. If you actively see discrimination, do something about it. I actually work with a team that is 90%…

> What if I started a company, and all good candidates were male, and the women weren't on par? What if no women applied at all? Then it's pretty clear you've done a bad job of advertising your job openings. Did you, perhaps, just ask for referrals among your own personal network?

>Then it's pretty clear you've done a bad job of advertising your job openings. Did you, perhaps, just ask for referrals among your own personal network?

That is pure conjecture, there are differences in the way men and women think, with men more naturally drawn to STEM fields, and to attempt to legislate equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity would be reverse sexism. Notice there is no mention of paid paternity leave, or other ways that women are blatantly given an advantage over men.

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