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Who Says Math Has to Be Boring?

nytimes.com

11–20 of 28 posts

Re: Who Says Math Has to Be Boring?

#11
One of the biggest reasons for that lack of interest is that students have been turned off to the subjects as they move from kindergarten to high school. Many are being taught by teachers who have no particular expertise in the subjects. They are following outdated curriculums and textbooks. They become convinced they’re “no good at math,” that math and science are only for nerds, and fall behind.

That’s because the American system of teaching these subjects is broken. For all the reform campaigns over the years, most schools continue to teach math and science in an off-putting way that appeals only to the most fervent students. The mathematical sequence has changed little since the Sputnik era: arithmetic, pre-algebra, algebra, geometry, trigonometry and, for only 17 percent of students, calculus. Science is generally limited to the familiar trinity of biology, chemistry, physics and, occasionally, earth science.

These two paragraphs capture the essence of the issue.

In fact, forgive me for bringing up the topic of compulsory schooling and deliberately defective education again, but I think I might have an interesting tidbit to share on this, which paints a rather ugly picture of the whole situation.

An excerpt from Charlotte Iserbyt's the deliberate dumbing down of america (Revised and Abridged Edition [2011], Ch 2: The Turning of the Tides, p. 31, c. 1928):

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"1928: A deliberate math "dumb down" was seriously discussed in 1928. A teacher named O.A. Nelson, John Dewey, Edward Thorndike (who conducted early behavioral psychology experiments on chickens), and other Council on Foreign Relations members attended a Progressive Education Association meeting in 1928 at which O. A. Nelson was informed that the purpose of "new math" was to dumb down students. Nelson revealed in a later interview with Young Parents Alert that the Progressive Education Association was a communist front. According to the National Educator (July 1979):

Mr. O. A. Nelson, retired educator, has supplied the vitally important documentation needed to support the link-up between the textbooks and the Council on Foreign Relations. His letter was first printed in "Young Parents Alert" (Lake Elmo, Minnesota). His story is self-explanatory.

I know from personal experience what I am talking about. In December 1928, I was asked to talk to the American Association for the Advancement of Science. On December 27th, naïve and inexperienced, I agreed. I had done some special work in teaching functional physics in high school. That was to be my topic. The next day, the 28th, a Dr. Ziegler asked me if I would attend a special educational meeting in his room after the AAAS meeting. We met from 10 o'clock [p.m.] until after 2:30 a.m.

We were 13 at the meeting. Two things caused Dr. Ziegler, who was chairman of the Educational Committee of the Council of Foreign Relations, to ask me to attend… my talk on the teaching of functional physics in high school, and the fact that I was a member of a group known as the Progressive Educators of America, which was nothing but a Communist front. I thought the word "progressive" meant progress for better schools.

Eleven of those attending the meeting were leaders in education. Drs. John Dewey and Edward Thorndike, from Columbia University, were there, and the others were of equal rank. I checked later and found that ALL were paid members of the Communist Party of Russia. I was classified as a member of the Party, but I did not know it at the time.

The sole work of the group was to destroy our schools! We spent one hour and forty-five minutes discussing the so-called "Modern Math." At one point I objected because there was too much memory work, and math is reasoning; not memory. Dr. Ziegler turned to me and said,

"Nelson, wake up! That is what we want… a math that the pupils cannot apply to life situations when they get out of school!"

That math was not introduced until much later, as those present thought it was too radical a change. A milder course by Dr. Beckner was substituted but it was also worthless, as far as understanding math was concerned. The radical change was introduced in 1952. It was the one we are using now. So, if pupils come out of high school now, not knowing any math, don't blame them. The results are supposed to be worthless."

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Re: Who Says Math Has to Be Boring?

#12
post #2

This is sad. Very sad. The only explanation is that so many Americans are so spoiled by the nation's past success that they became so vain. I mean, kids are naturally inquisitive. Given the right nurturing, kids should love STEM. Heck, they should be obsessed with STEM because STEM subjects are full of wonders. Yet, what do kids nowadays think cool? Having access to alcohol and drugs is cool. Bullying people who take…

Yet, what do kids nowadays think cool? Having access to alcohol and drugs is cool. Bullying people who take studying seriously is cool. Sports jockeys who think nothing is important other than their games with another high school are cool. When hearing people enthusiastically talk about technology, making a face as if he just ate s &^t is cool (just like the stupid and weak Jesse did in the finale of Breaking Bad whe…

Not really. I grew up in a developing country, where there were only public schools. And my school was by no means elite. Biographies of scientists were not part of curriculum either. It's really the culture. Parents did care about kids' academic performance, a lot. The whole society advocated studying hard with the right approach (whether it's really right is debatable). Even state media devote significant time to STEM related news and documentaries. Drug was never the problem because even carrying drug is capital crime. I'm not saying every every in every city was like that as our country had tons of social and economical problems. However, kids' education especially STEM education is THE focus of parenting.

Re: Who Says Math Has to Be Boring?

#13

It is not Math, Science that is Boring that is the problem. It's the level of effort required to be good and to become better. More than almost any other industry or skill, if you get easily frustrated or you can't focus (well) - you won't get enough experience (read: doing stuff the wrong way or failing) to get better. It is the frustration and ambiguity that one has to deal with when solving technical problems. Rem…

It's really because teachers and parents failed to teach kids how to perform deliberate practice, which requires handling a certain level of difficulties.

Re: Who Says Math Has to Be Boring?

#14

One of the biggest reasons for that lack of interest is that students have been turned off to the subjects as they move from kindergarten to high school. Many are being taught by teachers who have no particular expertise in the subjects. They are following outdated curriculums and textbooks. They become convinced they’re “no good at math,” that math and science are only for nerds, and fall behind. That’s because the…

  Many are being taught by teachers who have no particular expertise in the subjects.
The expert PhDs that taught me math in the University were horrible teachers that made the subjects dull and uninteresting.

Re: Who Says Math Has to Be Boring?

#15
One major problem, which the article touches on, is the media. Seems like normal people are usually presented as being completely baffled by the simplest bits of math and science. And those who understand math or science are presented as otherwise broken human beings: as people with egos out of control, people incapable of understanding other people, people who are irrationally evil, etc.

Let's act as if a solid understanding of math and science is the norm. Let's see more shows where being smart about math and science isn't some Lisa Simpson or Sheldon Cooper-like deviation from the norm, something that only comes along with social ostracism and other anti-normal traits. Let's see more news programs that regularly discuss scientific topics more deeply than "Stars. Sure they're beautiful to see at night, but are they causing your kids to get CANCER?"

Kids need role models. Basketball is no more inherently interesting than math and science. It's just putting an orange ball through a hoop. Over and over. And over. And over. But Lebron James is on my TV every other night, being celebrated on the court, in Samsung ads, on the news, etc. And if you say, well, that's because watching someone poke at a calculator isn't as exciting as watching slam dunks, well, you're buying into that shitty media representation of mathematicians and scientists as being exclusively pocket-protector-wearing geeks who never leave their windowless broom-closet offices...

Anyway. This is one reason I think Neil Degrasse Tyson is so important right now. He's an awesome role model. I'm 36 and I want to be him when I grow up.

Re: Who Says Math Has to Be Boring?

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, what do kids nowadays think cool? Having access to alcohol and drugs is cool. Bullying people who take studying seriously is cool. Sports jockeys who think nothing is important other than their games with another high school are cool. When hearing people enthusiastically talk about technology, making a face as if he just ate s &^t is cool (just like the stupid and weak Jesse did in the finale of Breaking Bad whe…

Not really. I grew up in a developing country, where there were only public schools. And my school was by no means elite. Biographies of scientists were not part of curriculum either. It's really the culture. Parents did care about kids' academic performance, a lot. The whole society advocated studying hard with the right approach (whether it's really right is debatable). Even state media devote significant time to S…

Sounds like the typical case of a poor nation.

There is no incentive to stay, the country is in a dreadful economic state, a large socio-political diaspora is present and so forth.

In times of desperation like this, it's usually the same everywhere: parents strongly guide their children into entering fields that are profitable and flourishing in academia. Their intentions are benevolent, but the way they accomplish this is often forceful, egocentric and driven not by the virtue of knowledge and intellect, but rather the expectations of prosperity.

Very often, although there is a superficial appearance of high intellectual culture, the reality is that many of these people are doing it to appease their parents and are actually mediocre in their fields. Also societies which insist on formal education this much tend to teach in a very flawed manner: mere rote memorization with no immersion.

In the end, you breed soulless parrots who can recite lectures and academic papers, but show no passion or intimate understanding and desire to refine their skills. This is how you get dull, 9-to-5 code monkeys who can write instructions in PHP and Java in a sort of cargo cult way with no sophistication.

Drug was never the problem because even carrying drug is capital crime.

Aye, when will people learn prohibition never works?

Re: Who Says Math Has to Be Boring?

#18
post #14

One of the biggest reasons for that lack of interest is that students have been turned off to the subjects as they move from kindergarten to high school. Many are being taught by teachers who have no particular expertise in the subjects. They are following outdated curriculums and textbooks. They become convinced they’re “no good at math,” that math and science are only for nerds, and fall behind. That’s because the…

Many are being taught by teachers who have no particular expertise in the subjects. The expert PhDs that taught me math in the University were horrible teachers that made the subjects dull and uninteresting.

So the former is a case of the blind leading the deaf, and the latter is a case of the dumb leading the blind.

Re: Who Says Math Has to Be Boring?

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, what do kids nowadays think cool? Having access to alcohol and drugs is cool. Bullying people who take studying seriously is cool. Sports jockeys who think nothing is important other than their games with another high school are cool. When hearing people enthusiastically talk about technology, making a face as if he just ate s &^t is cool (just like the stupid and weak Jesse did in the finale of Breaking Bad whe…

Not really. I grew up in a developing country, where there were only public schools. And my school was by no means elite. Biographies of scientists were not part of curriculum either. It's really the culture. Parents did care about kids' academic performance, a lot. The whole society advocated studying hard with the right approach (whether it's really right is debatable). Even state media devote significant time to S…

Well, I think you're into another extreme. Developing, yes. Poor? Maybe. Desperate? I'm not sure. At least our school days are full of fond memories. And my classmates seemed happy, and I was definitely happy. More importantly, we did enjoy learning.

Re: Who Says Math Has to Be Boring?

#20
"Engineers and physicists are often portrayed as clueless geeks on television, and despite the high pay and the importance of such jobs to the country’s future"

I must have missed this part when I was a post graduate. The only thing I saw physicists getting paid was peanuts you had to move three states over to get.

In 2006, when I left things looked largely like this[1]:

age 18-22: paying high tuition fees at an undergraduate college

age 22-30: graduate school, possibly with a bit of work, living on a stipend of $1800 per month

age 30-35: working as a post-doc for $30,000 to $35,000 per year

age 36-43: professor at a good, but not great, university for $65,000 per year

age 44: with (if lucky) young children at home, fired by the university ("denied tenure" is the more polite term for the folks that universities discard), begins searching for a job in a market where employers primarily wish to hire folks in their early 30s

Sadly from what I hear of people from my class who stayed on things are worse now. So why doesn't the article talk about the elephant in the room? That when you add student debt to the picture you need to work until you're 40 to beat someone who has worked at McDonald's that whole time. And just at that point you enter the most uncertain part of your career which will make or break the rest of your life.

Students aren't leaving the STEM fields in droves because they are stupid and unmotivated, they are leaving because the prospects for a career are terrible.

[1] http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science

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