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Software projects have an inherent bias towards unpredictability

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Re: Software projects have an inherent bias towards unpredictability

#11

Post by toolslive »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #8
toolslive wrote: post #6

""" it's likely that adapting old code to a new context is less work than starting from square one again. """ It has been measured that changing more than 25% of software incurs more than 100% of the cost. So your mileage may vary.

Any chance you remember where that measurement came from? I could use that with a client right now, given we're discussing a major refactor of about 25%-30% of the code base.

It was mentioned in this talk: http://vimeo.com/9270320 and in the corresponding book "making software" http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596808303.do

have fun.

Re: Software projects have an inherent bias towards unpredictability

#12

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

toolslive wrote: post #6

""" it's likely that adapting old code to a new context is less work than starting from square one again. """ It has been measured that changing more than 25% of software incurs more than 100% of the cost. So your mileage may vary.

I think it depends where you draw the line. These comparisons can be hard to make due to different accounting of what counts as "reuse." In this reply to a friend I was taking a very broad economic like view. For example: no one is rewriting the linux kernel from the ground up to launch an ecommerce app. Likewise people generally aren't rewriting the functionality provided by their langauges' standard libraries for each app. So in the broadest sense of all labor involved, there's a lot more reuse going on than a more narrow experiment may consider.

Re: Software projects have an inherent bias towards unpredictability

#13

Post by asabjorn »

toolslive wrote: post #11
SkyMarshal wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any chance you remember where that measurement came from? I could use that with a client right now, given we're discussing a major refactor of about 25%-30% of the code base.

It was mentioned in this talk: http://vimeo.com/9270320 and in the corresponding book "making software" http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596808303.do have fun.

Have you been able to find the Thomas et al paper that supports this claim? I have been unable to find it, and others seem to have this problem as well:

http://www.gdb.me/computing/citations-greg-wilson-cusec.html

Re: Software projects have an inherent bias towards unpredictability

#14

Post by jkubicek »

ams6110 wrote: post #9

True for some projects, not true at all for many others. If you build e-commerce online stores, or other standard sorts of offerings, you may very well be able to "lay the bricks" in a very predictable amount of time after you've done a few.

Having never worked on an e-commerce store or anything like it, do those sorts of products usually exceed their schedules?

Re: Software projects have an inherent bias towards unpredictability

#15

Post by gwu78 »

"Pretty much every piece of technology and algorithm that I use has been known since the 70's and the only thing I do is hook up those technologies in various ways to accomplish a goal. To say that it is "novel" or "unpredictable" is definitely a mischaracterization."

Re: Software projects have an inherent bias towards unpredictability

#16

Post by proksoup »

I dislike doing non-novel things. I dislike being paid for it. If I estimate accurately, it's probably not novel.

I dislike accurate estimates.

I'll do them, but I'm happy when I do it in 3x the time, not sad. And I certainly don't feel like I wwasted my time.

I just can't seem to find any employers or customers who feel the same way.

Re: Software projects have an inherent bias towards unpredictability

#17

Post by ozim »

swswsw wrote: post #3

What the author said is very true. We should accept that there is no good way to estimate the schedule because each software is inherently new. Simply that it will be done when it is done.

Like software developers would be some fairies living in mystical land? It is not working that way from other point of view, and that point of view is where money come from ;)

Re: Software projects have an inherent bias towards unpredictability

#19

Post by toolslive »

asabjorn wrote: post #13
toolslive wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was mentioned in this talk: http://vimeo.com/9270320 and in the corresponding book "making software" http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596808303.do have fun.

Have you been able to find the Thomas et al paper that supports this claim? I have been unable to find it, and others seem to have this problem as well: http://www.gdb.me/computing/citations-greg-wilson-cusec.html

the slides from the talk are here: http://www.slideshare.net/gvwilson/bits-of-evidence-2338367 (see slide 20)

I realized today I got it from somewhere else.. (Facts and fallacies of Software engineering) Looking up the whole reference in that book gave me the title, and googling that gave me the the paper

http://drum.lib.umd.edu/bitstream/1903/703/2/CS-TR-3424.pdf

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