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Renault will remotely lock down electric cars

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Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars

#11

Post by michaelt »

bausson wrote: post #6
michaelt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The remote disabling sounds bad, but from an economic perspective renting batteries could be good for consumers and manufacturers at the same time. A lot of this battery stuff is very new at the moment. You look at, say, a Panasonic NCR18650 [1] and it's very affordable, but it loses 20% of its capacity after just 300 charge cycles. It depends on temprature, charge rate, depth of discharge and so on, so designers can…

But what if said manufacturer decide your car is not 'supported' anymore? You may not even be allowed to turn to alternative battery suppliers, because it might be forbidden by contract. Their are some user protection laws in some countries (say, France), but it won't be the case everywhere.

I was assuming the rental contracts would be long-term enough to guarantee pricing and availability for the life of the car, e.g. a 10 year fixed price contract with the option to renew at the same price for another 10 years.

It's a nascent industry at the moment - I'm not sure how it will play out. Presumably some day battery lives will be proven, manufacturer reputations will be established, and consumers and regulators will know what to look for, check and standardise. Once the technology risks and information asymmetries are reduced, passing the risks to manufacturers will be less appealing and we might all end up paying up front for our 30-year batteries.

Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars

#12

Post by mtrimpe »

mosselman wrote: post #8

Sadly this is a general trend though. In the past we used to buy things, like software. Now everything is subscription based and that sucks for consumers. Look at Billings (invoicing app) for example. It used to be reasonably priced as a download, now you have to buy a monthly subscription which ends up being much more expensive than before AND they can cut you off from your own data. This SaaS trend is good for busi…

For SaaS laws that force vendors to offer the ability to export (and delete) a user's data seem inevitable in the long run though.

Given that the EU has already started on the 'right to be forgotten' issue I'd be surprised if they don't start making an issue out of this in the next couple of years.

It'll be very interesting to see what kind of effects this will have on companies like Facebook in the long term.

Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars

#13

Post by raws »

raws wrote: post #10

>We already knew that Tesla was doing this with its cars since the company’s very public spat with a journalist who reviewed one of their cars for the New York Times. Seeing the same thing in a mass market manufacturer like Renault makes clear just how dangerous this trend is. Didn't know Tesla had a remote command to kill your car. This guy doesn't really know what he's talking about; Tesla has some kind of OnStar s…

>bribing a Renault employee...

If that's not harder than just hacking it plain an simple...

Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars

#14

Post by [deleted] »

mosselman wrote: post #8

Sadly this is a general trend though. In the past we used to buy things, like software. Now everything is subscription based and that sucks for consumers. Look at Billings (invoicing app) for example. It used to be reasonably priced as a download, now you have to buy a monthly subscription which ends up being much more expensive than before AND they can cut you off from your own data. This SaaS trend is good for busi…

[deleted]

Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars

#18

Post by alan_cx »

casca wrote: post #3

TL;DR: Renault has a clause in the contract that allows them to remotely stop their EV from charging This is an interesting issue but the article overstates the case. "... [electric cars] collect reams of data on how you use them, and send this data off to the manufacturer without your knowledge". Without your knowledge? Really? EVs are very new technology and none of them have shown to be profitable without governme…

" Without your knowledge? Really?"

Dunno many people who buy cars having any idea of the privacy issues of driving the nice new shiny car. Most normal people are only just realising that their entire online activity is recorded in one way or another. Cars? People don't have a clue. And why would they? Are we given data collection statements before we decide which car to buy?

I really get tired of people knowledgeable in a certain area assuming that the general population know, or should know, what they know.

No, the average punter has no idea what data their new car is sending back to base. And frankly, even as both a techie and petrol head, I don't either. I know it can happen, I know it does happen, but I have zero idea what, when or where. Sorry and all that.

(Um, seems I went off on a tangent below. Im leaving it in 'cos of the sheer effort involved.....But, you know, do stop at this point if you have a life)

What distorts public thinking even more is that a while ago politicians (UK) floated the idea that all cars should have some sort of computer fitted that can track and some how govern car use. (Safety and insurance, you understand. No, nothing to do with tracking the plebs, no, not at all. How dare the dear reader be so cynical. Shame on you!!!) On the political side, that has gone quiet. But the on the business side, its all the rage. People in general can be forgiven for thinking that because the political debate went away, so did the issue. So, no creepy tracking by government. But, the corporations are quietly implementing the strategy instead. And if government agencies want that date, one twist of the law and its all theirs.

And now as I think about it, what a clever strategy to reduce freedoms by the back door. Commerce seems to be able to do what governments could never do. In fact the genius of it is that we are happy to pay for it as a feature.

And that just cars. Look at what smartphones actually do. Not only do they track and catalog us, but we actually spend hours every single day literally filling out time sheets in the form of twitter and facebook. Imagine of a government told us to carry personal trackers and to spend a mere half hour filling out a form that told them what we did every day in even minimal detail.

All very odd to me.

Yes, I exaggerate, but hopefully to make a point.

Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars

#19

Post by ColinWright »

Lengthy discussion here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6731894 :

    Renault ships a brickable car
    with battery DRM that you're not
    allowed to own
    (boingboing.net)
That's old enough that it's no longer possible to contribute, but there are some interesting comments there.

Other contributions of the same story:

====

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6718341 :

    Renault introduces DRM for cars
    (techdirt.com)
====

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6723522 :

    Renault introduces DRM for cars
    (techdirt.com)
====

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6729800 :

    DRM in Cars Will Drive Consumers Crazy
    (eff.org)

Re: Renault will remotely lock down electric cars

#20

Post by downer95 »

How do they know they aren't stranding you and your 90 year-old grandma in the middle of the desert with no water?

How do they know they are SAFELY bricking your car?

How do they know you're legally parked? That the car won't be destroyed? If the car is destroyed, will anyone continue their payments?

Is that not their problem? Do they not care? Is that what you get for being a deadbeat?

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