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Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

nytimes.com

11–20 of 168 posts

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#11
Are there any statistics what happens to drivers at fault that kill another car driver?

What would be the "best" outcome in these cases? Do you want to throw someone in jail for making an unintentional mistake? Should there just be a civil lawsuit where either the driver or the insurance pays to the victim's family?

I don't have an answer to that, just asking for opinions.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#12
>So here’s my proposal: Every time you get on a bike, from this moment forward, obey the letter of the law in every traffic exchange everywhere...

Hahahahaha. I see a flaw in this plan.

I don't see why the author views a lack of criminal charges as evidence of some kind of travesty of justice. If a cyclist gets run down by someone who didn't see him, that's an accident, not a crime.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#13
post #3

The US has always had a horrible "you are on your own mentality". I mean, over a hundred kids have been killed by gun rampages in schools over the past several years and nothing has changed. Oh wait, no MORE guns have been made legal and available, not less. So basically the American public becomes trained to be desensitized to deaths, cyclists, schoolkids, drunk driving, etc.

>The US has always had a horrible "you are on your own mentality".

Yeah... we call it "freedom".

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#14
I think this is problem that's endemic in the UK too. Our love of the motor vehicle, and design of the city to meet the needs of the motorist just leaves little to no room to make cycling a safe activity.

Just take London UK for example, last week one person died and another was critically injured cycling in the city

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-crushed-by-lor...

http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/cyclist_killed_on...

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=de&msa=0&msid=207...

If cycling is to ever become safe, cities need to start embracing the bike like they do in the Netherlands, but it's no easy task.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#15
post #3

The US has always had a horrible "you are on your own mentality". I mean, over a hundred kids have been killed by gun rampages in schools over the past several years and nothing has changed. Oh wait, no MORE guns have been made legal and available, not less. So basically the American public becomes trained to be desensitized to deaths, cyclists, schoolkids, drunk driving, etc.

Are you suggesting that banning cars is an appropriate response to cyclists being hit by cars?

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#16

TL;DR — No.

You must not have read the article, because that's definitely not the TL;DR. Sentences like this tell a very different story: > We do not know of a single case of a cyclist fatality in which the driver was prosecuted, except for D.U.I. or hit-and-run. That sure sounds to me like society has de facto decided "It's OK to kill cyclists as long as you aren't drunk and you stick around to apologize afterward."

Or society has de facto decided there's no point in sending someone to jail for a legitimate accident.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#17
No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet

I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who do not obey stop signs are vast majority, about 50% cyclists run red lights, etc, etc, etc. If you don't want to die, stop trying.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#18
It's pretty amazing how quickly tribalism emerges in cases like this. As societies, we seem to require very little difference before it's ok not to give a damn about people being killed. A disagreement about the most efficient form of transportation escalates in a moment into life and death.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#19
I grew up cycling in London. Came from a family of cyclists and motorbikers. My uncles taught me one rule, which has saved me on numerous occasions (on a bike and in a car):

"Ride like you're invisible. Drivers don't see you when you're on a bike"

And it's so true.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#20
post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

scratch off point d. Helmets don't really do anything to protect you unless you practically fall off your bike standing still.

I've seen brains on the street from at least two low-speed bike accidents where the cyclist was wearing a helmet.

Also, it's not that all cyclists are disobeying the law. Those are just the ones you choose to see. Drivers and pedestrians alike just aren't looking.

I always obey traffic laws on my bike.

Edit: All these anecdotes are great and all, but it's not like we're going to be reading stories from all the people with brain injuries or who died. Cycling lanes and infrastructure do significantly more to make riding safer than helmets and helmet laws do.

http://www.bicycling.com/sites/default/files/uploads/BI-June...

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/19036/feds-will-sto...

http://bicyclesafe.com/helmets.html

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