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My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

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Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#11
post #6

I feel like I'm a different species when I hear someone excited about working 80+ hours a week. Having so little free time and so little time to spend with friends and family seems like a sad life regardless of the paycheck. I agree with this: "Have a passion for Doing something rather than Being a title on a business card." I also agree that "Showing up a lot increases your odds" (in this case meaning working a lot…

Your values are not universal to all humanity. Sometimes I work an 80 hour week. I do this because I'm engaged with something and I don't want to be doing anything else. When I don't want to do that, I work normal hours. I live how I want to live.

I have friends, family, and a life. I'm also naturally introverted, and sometimes I just want to put my head down for a week and jam. This is something I like doing.

Different strokes for different folks man. I think your life is sad if you can't understand that some people are different than you are.

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#12
post #6

I feel like I'm a different species when I hear someone excited about working 80+ hours a week. Having so little free time and so little time to spend with friends and family seems like a sad life regardless of the paycheck. I agree with this: "Have a passion for Doing something rather than Being a title on a business card." I also agree that "Showing up a lot increases your odds" (in this case meaning working a lot…

If I have to work 80+ hours a week to have the absolute financial freedom to live the rest of my estimated 40-50 years on this planet in any way I chose, nevermind ensuring similar benefits accrue to my family, then I think that's a pretty good deal. I still have down time and plenty of fond memories -- you just have to plan how you spend that time a bit better. I live in a part of the world where a lack of financial…

There's a nice parable about working hard to have free time later: http://www.protolink.com/MexicanFisherman.html

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#13
> Two weeks before the class was over, the head of the deployment team asked, “Steve, are you single?” Yes. “Do you like to travel?” Sure. “Why don’t you come to Korea with us when we ship the system overseas.”

The first of those questions was completely unnecessary, and invited a potential employment discrimination lawsuit; it fairly directly implies they might not have made the offer if he wasn't. It would have sufficed to find out if he was willing to travel.

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#14
post #4
post #2

Can anyone summarize? I do not read linkedin articles.

What's this guy asking? I don't read stupid Hacker News comments.

Agile Opportunism – Entrepreneurial DNA

Posted on June 29, 2009 by steveblank

Seems like the guy has a point. Title's been changed. And the meta-data of the source publication (http://steveblank.com) is lost in the process. About par for the course. Linkedin is a needless re-direct.

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I have to work 80+ hours a week to have the absolute financial freedom to live the rest of my estimated 40-50 years on this planet in any way I chose, nevermind ensuring similar benefits accrue to my family, then I think that's a pretty good deal. I still have down time and plenty of fond memories -- you just have to plan how you spend that time a bit better. I live in a part of the world where a lack of financial…

There's a nice parable about working hard to have free time later: http://www.protolink.com/MexicanFisherman.html

The parable is nice, but it certainly does not apply here. To quote the GP:

> I live in a part of the world where a lack of financial resources is death

In that setting, any cent that you can accumulate on you bank account is a life insurance. I can totally understand that the GP wants to spend some time in his life working like crazy so that for the rest he can work less while still enjoying a moderate amount of safety. It certainly beats working part time all your life and worrying about how to pay today's food, heating or rent.

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#16
post #6

I feel like I'm a different species when I hear someone excited about working 80+ hours a week. Having so little free time and so little time to spend with friends and family seems like a sad life regardless of the paycheck. I agree with this: "Have a passion for Doing something rather than Being a title on a business card." I also agree that "Showing up a lot increases your odds" (in this case meaning working a lot…

Maybe here they don't, but I think generally people see things your way.

I don't, and I didn't, even before I got into 'tech' and started reading HN. For me, the statement 'life outside of work is more meaningful than work' just doesn't make sense.

While I do treat 'work time' slightly differently than 'free time', the difference is not so great for me. It's mostly to keep some ritual and prevent weeks turning into long blurs.

In fact, I've never really treated 'work' as something so discrete. In high school, as soon as I figured out the 'tricks' to not getting kicked out of school and not failing classes, I spent most of my time doing what I wanted. I could skip many classes and engage in the few that interested me. And I had loads of time and energy left to learn stuff that I wanted to learn. Often I could make a deal with teachers to not go to class because when I was present, I was active and engaged, and I treated them like, well, just people, not bosses.

In university, there were less hoops to jump through, and there was more freedom, but once again I skipped classes I didn't care for (while making sure that I'd still have a decent grade and participate in group work), and actively engaged in the fun classes. Despite my absence, my targeted interested usually meant that I was one of people that the professors 'knew', rather than just a a face in the crowd.

And now, as a freelancer, I do make a point to set aside blocks of time for work, but for the most part I primarily try to make sure that I enjoy whatever I'm doing. Every once in a while a project feels like a chore, but for the most part I can choose the projects or the parts of projects that I enjoy or that I learn from.

Most of the time 'work' doesn't feel different from 'life outside work'. I love talking about my work and I'm baffled by my friends who make a point of actively avoiding the topic on a Friday pub night. I occasionally work in the weekend, but it doesn't feel like I'm 'losing' any of my weekend because of this. I occasionally take on projects that pay shit but are fun or helpful, and 'subsidise' this with bigger, often less fun projects.

Meanwhile throughout high school and college I saw classmates go to every class no matter the value, diligently do all the exercises 'just because', and complain about how it all sucked. Working as a contractor, I see colleagues drag themselves into work on Monday after a rough weekend of 'outside work life', and joke on a Wednesday about how it's almost Friday. And complain about how much work sucks.

I do get that not everyone has the freedom to find work that they enjoy, but what I don't get is that so many people do have that freedom, and quite a good safety net (especially here in Europe), but don't exercise it.

The happiest people I've known were generally the ones that didn't make a strict separation between work and 'life', but instead found work that didn't feel like work most of the time. It took a lot of creativity, effort and uncertainty to get there, but the results were worth it.

EDIT: I do realize that OP acknowledges this, so perhaps this should not have been a reply. apologies.

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#17

"You’re not so smart, you just show up a lot in a lot of places." Quite astute. As they say, showing up is half the battle.

Maybe, but being the kind of person to hustle your way into a job in a situation he described is pretty impressive in itself, and he showed a lot of savvy in a short space of time in gathering the intelligence to work out the pitch that meant they had to hire him.

So yes, 'showing up' a lot is very important, but it's not the only lesson I take from his story by a long shot.

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#18
post #6

I feel like I'm a different species when I hear someone excited about working 80+ hours a week. Having so little free time and so little time to spend with friends and family seems like a sad life regardless of the paycheck. I agree with this: "Have a passion for Doing something rather than Being a title on a business card." I also agree that "Showing up a lot increases your odds" (in this case meaning working a lot…

You’re not alone. I’m only awake for 80 hours during the week. Devoting half of that to a job is insane enough, thanks.

You sleep an average of 12.5 hours per day?

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#19
post #6

I feel like I'm a different species when I hear someone excited about working 80+ hours a week. Having so little free time and so little time to spend with friends and family seems like a sad life regardless of the paycheck. I agree with this: "Have a passion for Doing something rather than Being a title on a business card." I also agree that "Showing up a lot increases your odds" (in this case meaning working a lot…

If I have to work 80+ hours a week to have the absolute financial freedom to live the rest of my estimated 40-50 years on this planet in any way I chose, nevermind ensuring similar benefits accrue to my family, then I think that's a pretty good deal. I still have down time and plenty of fond memories -- you just have to plan how you spend that time a bit better. I live in a part of the world where a lack of financial…

> to live the rest of my estimated 40-50 years on this planet in any way I chose

It seems like you quite enjoy what you do. When you retire are you just going to give up that completely? If not maybe it is something you consider. You can earn a pretty healthy salary not working 80 hours a week, and you might get some ideas of what you want to do when you have financial freedom, rather than just slouching in front of the TV because you are too tired from working so hard for the past 15 years.

Disclaimer: I'm currently earning >$100k working 40 hours a week doing Rails development. There are smarter people than me out there, there is nothing special about me in that regard. I just don't want to spend every waking minute working at 25.

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I have to work 80+ hours a week to have the absolute financial freedom to live the rest of my estimated 40-50 years on this planet in any way I chose, nevermind ensuring similar benefits accrue to my family, then I think that's a pretty good deal. I still have down time and plenty of fond memories -- you just have to plan how you spend that time a bit better. I live in a part of the world where a lack of financial…

There's a nice parable about working hard to have free time later: http://www.protolink.com/MexicanFisherman.html

The problem with this parable is that it equates two different scenarios. A fisherman without extensive financial resources is not the same as a person with extensive financial resources choosing to fish. Here's some alternative endings, in a country without social and medical support in place, for you to consider:

1. The fisherman develops a serious illness and finds he can no longer support his family. His wife, who was barely getting by on a fisherman's income as a housewife, finds herself working at a local bar, serving drunk, lecherous men every day and night. His son and daughter find themselves unable to afford an education and really don't want daddy to die. With mounting medical bills, the son finds himself involved in crime to support his family and is eventually sent to prison for life for a crime he didn't commit. The daughter meets a wealthy man and everything is great until he starts hitting her. But at least she can support her father, lying on his deathbed in hospital. Daddy eventually dies but by that point she's stuck with 2 kids married to a man she hates.

2. Oh but medical welfare would solve the problem in #2? Setting aside that this is contrary to my stated scenario (a country without medical welfare), consider this scenario: the fisherman loses his fingers and toes in a freak fishing accident.

3. Oh but somehow he managed to afford an insurance policy that paid out on disability? Setting aside how unlikely this is to be for people barely making a living wage, consider this scenario instead: the nearby waters are polluted by an American oil extraction firm, and the fisherman finds himself scrubbing toilets at McDonald's to support his family. The American happens to come by one day and leaves him a nice tip.

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