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Ask HN - My manager called Rails passé. Is he wrong?

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Re: Ask HN - My manager called Rails passé. Is he wrong?

#11

Post by binofbread »

subsection1h wrote: post #8

> My manager called Rails passé this morning [...] > our team to start using a single page architecture What server-side framework does your manager think should be used with the client-side framework? > a trend just like rails was a year ago. Rails was a trend a year ago (2012)? Out of curiosity, what was Rails between 2005 and 2011?

He seems to be in the "if it works now, why change it?" camp. So at the moment that means using Java Server Faces on the front end. I haven't had much exposure to the server-side, but I'm so not sure there is any good framework in place as it's closely coupled with the front end logic.

Your second comment is a good one. What I think he meant by "trend" was that last year Rails was what all the architects and leaders at the company were pushing for. His argument was that this year it's the same thing except with single page architecture (Backbonejs in this case).

Re: Ask HN - My manager called Rails passé. Is he wrong?

#12

Post by binofbread »

memracom wrote: post #5

He is right. Rails was part of the old paradigm where a webapp runs on the server and sends HTML pages to the client. The new paradigm, which I would not call single page architecture for historical reasons, sends the app to the client in when they open a page, and then runs on the client and only calls back to the server to get/post data. And maybe load some additional code blocks. These apps are built in Javascript…

His argument is that the "new paradigm" is constantly changing and reinventing itself (usually with old concepts). Meaning in ~2 years, there is going to be a "better" way to do things. I'm not sure I agree with him, but that's his argument for not switching to a front-end MV* framework.

Re: Ask HN - My manager called Rails passé. Is he wrong?

#13

Post by ninkendo »

memracom wrote: post #5

He is right. Rails was part of the old paradigm where a webapp runs on the server and sends HTML pages to the client. The new paradigm, which I would not call single page architecture for historical reasons, sends the app to the client in when they open a page, and then runs on the client and only calls back to the server to get/post data. And maybe load some additional code blocks. These apps are built in Javascript…

  > then runs on the client and only calls back to the server to get/post data.
And what's running on the server to handle those GET's/POST's?

Re: Ask HN - My manager called Rails passé. Is he wrong?

#14

Post by argumentum »

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. - Thomas Jefferson

It's (intendedly) a simplification, but one that aptly describes how to respond to a situation like yours.

There is value in both style and principle, but there's a distinction between the type of value each provides. As a member of Society, Style has obvious social value.

Programming is a society as any other. The social value of following trends (swimming with the current) is that often many of the most creative & adventurous of us are early adopters of trend. Being the best people is so important, that it's often worth taking a leap based on that.

Usually genuine programming trends starts with a small group of bright hackers imagining a different future. They've probably got at least a couple inspiring ideas and it's worth taking a risk that these are the right ideas.

Every good hacker (or scientist, engineer, founder, writer, artist, thinker) has first principles. Whether they've explored their own intellect as much as say Paul Graham, unlikely, but if your moorless at sea, your simply at the mercy of every current that comes along. You simply wouldn't get anywhere.

To wrap up this wordy spiel, here's an summary:

> Use the current (Style) to arrive at your rock (Principle)

Re: Ask HN - My manager called Rails passé. Is he wrong?

#15

Post by GFischer »

binofbread wrote: post #11
subsection1h wrote: post #8

> My manager called Rails passé this morning [...] > our team to start using a single page architecture What server-side framework does your manager think should be used with the client-side framework? > a trend just like rails was a year ago. Rails was a trend a year ago (2012)? Out of curiosity, what was Rails between 2005 and 2011?

He seems to be in the "if it works now, why change it?" camp. So at the moment that means using Java Server Faces on the front end. I haven't had much exposure to the server-side, but I'm so not sure there is any good framework in place as it's closely coupled with the front end logic. Your second comment is a good one. What I think he meant by "trend" was that last year Rails was what all the architects and leaders…

From an entirely outside experience, I saw at the company I work for a very bad experience with a project where the team pushed for a single page application - they got delayed for months because of the technology, the problem was not single page applications in themselves, but that they seriously underestimated the learning curve and they were absolute novices (no-one had prior experience in SPA). And I definitely believe they could have cut months from the development time by sticking to known tech.

For a company where development is not core, I wouldn't recommend it, but if the company is a tech company, I would evaluate devoting resources to learning single page applications and doing some pilot projects, then leveraging the experience and pushing it into the main projects if applicable :) .

Re: Ask HN - My manager called Rails passé. Is he wrong?

#17

Post by binofbread »

graham1776 wrote: post #16

That being said, I am learning rails right now... Is it time to switch to a different language? What would you learn today in preparation for the next big thing?

I don't think learning Rails right now is a bad thing. I've been doing some side projects in it for ~2 years and definitely don't regret it. As some other folks in here have mentioned, there is always going to be something newer and better out there. If Rails is your first or even one of your first web stack experiences, it is a great way to learn the fundamentals and it makes learning the next new thing that much easier. In short, the "next big thing" is ever changing and I don't think anyone would call Rails old. It's just no longer new.

Re: Ask HN - My manager called Rails passé. Is he wrong?

#18

Post by binofbread »

argumentum wrote: post #14

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. - Thomas Jefferson It's (intendedly) a simplification, but one that aptly describes how to respond to a situation like yours. There is value in both style and principle, but there's a distinction between the type of value each provides. As a member of Society, Style has obvious social value. Programming is a society as any other.…

Well said, thanks for the insight.
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