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Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'

#11

Post by spangled »

"Der Spiegel reportedly approached authorities with a US document that contained Mrs Merkel's mobile phone number"

It's unclear whether that means she was specifically targeted, or whether that actually means the number was tapped or if it was "merely" metadata. If the US were simply hoovering cellular metadata in the Berlin area, as has been the accusation elsewhere, it wouldn't be terribly surprising for her number to turn up. But I don't think that's quite the same thing being implied by the headline(s).

Re: Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'

#12

Post by mudetroit »

MikeTaylor wrote: post #3

It so desperately disappointing when a man who was elected largely for his understanding and respect for the constitution turns out to have been systematically dumping over it for the last few years. Like so many people, I expected better of Obama. He's not the man I thought he was.

FWIW, spying on the leader of a foreign nation is not in anyway dumping on the constitution. Not going to make commentary on other programs, those are a completely different matter, but spying on the leaders of other nations, allies or not, is not illegal nor should it be surprising.

Re: Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'

#14

Post by LanceH »

mudetroit wrote: post #12
MikeTaylor wrote: post #3

It so desperately disappointing when a man who was elected largely for his understanding and respect for the constitution turns out to have been systematically dumping over it for the last few years. Like so many people, I expected better of Obama. He's not the man I thought he was.

FWIW, spying on the leader of a foreign nation is not in anyway dumping on the constitution. Not going to make commentary on other programs, those are a completely different matter, but spying on the leaders of other nations, allies or not, is not illegal nor should it be surprising.

Getting caught is bad form.

Re: Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'

#15

Post by S4M »

msandford wrote: post #8
MikeTaylor wrote: post #3

It so desperately disappointing when a man who was elected largely for his understanding and respect for the constitution turns out to have been systematically dumping over it for the last few years. Like so many people, I expected better of Obama. He's not the man I thought he was.

Politicians are only true to their "roots" when they're in opposition. Once in power that all quickly goes out the window for "expedience" to "solve" the problems we currently face, and to not let the opposition get in a word edgewise. Pay attention and you'll see that people from both parties do it consistently. Once you recognize that the only reasonable conclusion to come to is that you can't vote republican or de…

RMS for president, then?

Re: Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'

#16

Post by cmdkeen »

It isn't like the world didn't have any interest in German policy 3 years ago. Not when Angela Merkel was deciding whether to continue with bailing out Greece, create massive changes in EU fiscal policy or otherwise use Germany's new found place as the dominant EU player for other ends.

Quite why Germany's intelligence services let her use "an old Nokia" is beyond me anyway - it isn't just vulnerable to the NSA spying on her, it's vulnerable to all sorts of people, let alone states, spying on her.

All this talk on here of the need for digital security, random people talking of needing to deniably encrypt hard drives and not being able to trust Lavabit and the German authorities couldn't, or didn't try, to persuade their elected leader to use something more than an old phone.

Re: Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'

#17

Post by MysticFear »

mudetroit wrote: post #12
MikeTaylor wrote: post #3

It so desperately disappointing when a man who was elected largely for his understanding and respect for the constitution turns out to have been systematically dumping over it for the last few years. Like so many people, I expected better of Obama. He's not the man I thought he was.

FWIW, spying on the leader of a foreign nation is not in anyway dumping on the constitution. Not going to make commentary on other programs, those are a completely different matter, but spying on the leaders of other nations, allies or not, is not illegal nor should it be surprising.

but spying on all Americans is dumping on the constitution.. as well as assassinating American citizens without any court order/trial (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.h...).

EDIT: another source http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57585798/who-were-the-4-...

Re: Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'

#18

Post by jonknee »

spoiledtechie wrote: post #13

This just shows he is willing to lie to get his way. Again can't be trusted. He told Merkel that if he knew, he would have stopped it. That's the smoking gun. Proves he lied. http://weaselzippers.us/2013/10/26/breaking-report-obama-lie...

So long as both of the anonymously sourced stories are true... We don't know what Obama said and we don't know what Obama approved. For that matter, we don't know what the NSA actually did. It's safe to say that the NSA has been using their "required to fight terrorism" programs for non-terrorism spying, but beyond that everything is murky.

Re: Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'

#19

Post by Xylakant »

cmdkeen wrote: post #16

It isn't like the world didn't have any interest in German policy 3 years ago. Not when Angela Merkel was deciding whether to continue with bailing out Greece, create massive changes in EU fiscal policy or otherwise use Germany's new found place as the dominant EU player for other ends. Quite why Germany's intelligence services let her use "an old Nokia" is beyond me anyway - it isn't just vulnerable to the NSA spyin…

The "old nokia" she used is actually a party (as in political party :) mobile. The reason for owning and using that mobile is simple: Most of the people Angela Merkel communicates with do not own a secure mobile that's encryption capable.

Re: Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'

#20

Post by gjm11 »

001sky wrote: post #4

wow. just yesterday they tried to pin it on Bush.

The article makes, or at least reports, the following claims about the tapping of Merkel's phone: (1) it began in 2002 (when, yes, GWB was in office), (2) Obama was told about it in 2010, and (3) at that time he approved it and allowed it to continue.

If all this is true, then it seems to me it's perfectly fair to "pin it on Bush" and to blame Obama for the fact that it continued past 2010.

It also seems worth remarking (a) that actual evidence for the claims seems to be in short supply, and (b) that if they're correct it's pretty weird that Obama wasn't told until 2010 that the NSA was tapping the phone of the leader of a major foreign nation allied with the US.

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