How can you have a lizard brain when lizards are an unrelated evolutionary branch? It should be a frog brain perhaps.
Well a reptilian brain is what he means :) Aren't reptiles common ancestors?
Revenge of the lizard brain
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Re: Revenge of the lizard brain
#12Surely the concept itself is sound if you forget the misleading names and the idea of three independent modules? The more ancient parts of the brain certainly are located nearer the brainstem, and the most recent ones near the surface.
Also, even though the brain appears on a high level to function as a coordinated whole, there are certainly situations where, for instance, the ancient FFFF[1] responses compete with whatever the neocortex wants to do. Indeed, there's even a plausible-sounding hypothesis[2] that subjective experience itself arises from conflicts between the different modules.
[1] Fight, flee, feed, reproduce
Re: Revenge of the lizard brain
#13"Brain science" is ripe for debunking. Why do people still accept this humbug?
http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/books/2012/09/your-brain...
Re: Revenge of the lizard brain
#14How can you have a lizard brain when lizards are an unrelated evolutionary branch? It should be a frog brain perhaps.
Well a reptilian brain is what he means :) Aren't reptiles common ancestors?
They absolutely aren't!
Mammals are Synapsids, reptiles and birds are Sauropsida.
They branched before most of brain development in both groups took place and since then we don't share ancestors.
Re: Revenge of the lizard brain
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well a reptilian brain is what he means :) Aren't reptiles common ancestors?
They absolutely aren't! Mammals are Synapsids, reptiles and birds are Sauropsida. They branched before most of brain development in both groups took place and since then we don't share ancestors.
Hmm. Interesting. So there is absolutely no basis to a reptilian brain component thingie?
Re: Revenge of the lizard brain
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
They absolutely aren't! Mammals are Synapsids, reptiles and birds are Sauropsida. They branched before most of brain development in both groups took place and since then we don't share ancestors.
Hmm. Interesting. So there is absolutely no basis to a reptilian brain component thingie?
There might or might not be - we still have some our distant evolutionary ancestors; but the nice name for it ("lizard brain") is false.
Re: Revenge of the lizard brain
#17No matter someone's stance on this, it seems a bit forward to discredit a relatively widely-held theory as something that is weakly argued by providing a few bullet points and then an outright assertion of another competing theory. This kind of thing has no place on Hacker News.
It's not a scientific theory, at best it's folk wisdom. This article is pointing out that there is no scientific basis for it. The onus is not on anyone to disprove the theory, the onus is on the theory's proponents to prove it, they haven't done so, not to the slightest degree.
Yes. As a PhD neuroscientist, I use reference to the triune brain as a sort of shibboleth: If someone mentions it, I can tell they don't know any neuroscience.
Re: Revenge of the lizard brain
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not a scientific theory, at best it's folk wisdom. This article is pointing out that there is no scientific basis for it. The onus is not on anyone to disprove the theory, the onus is on the theory's proponents to prove it, they haven't done so, not to the slightest degree.
Yes. As a PhD neuroscientist, I use reference to the triune brain as a sort of shibboleth: If someone mentions it, I can tell they don't know any neuroscience.
Serious question: why hasn't the idea been aggressively discredited then? That would be a good thing, wouldn't it?
Re: Revenge of the lizard brain
#19Having spent some time in meditation practice, I have come to the conclusion that this is true (maybe not literally, but at least in effect).
We all spend most (all?) of our time being driven by impulses and habits without realizing that we're doing so and without any choice in that matter.
Moments of mindfulness are the exception, typically caused by some "unusual" event - like somebody you know dying.
It's quite a sad state of affairs (IMHO anyway). More like living the live of an extremely sophisticated robot, rather than a conscious, living being.
Everybody should spend a few minutes every day reflecting on exactly how decisions throughout the day were made.
Re: Revenge of the lizard brain
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. As a PhD neuroscientist, I use reference to the triune brain as a sort of shibboleth: If someone mentions it, I can tell they don't know any neuroscience.
Serious question: why hasn't the idea been aggressively discredited then? That would be a good thing, wouldn't it?
I guess it's not really on most people's radar. There's little professional incentive in arguing against some old quasi-folk theory that is not believed by any of your peers.
The incentive could exist for scientists who want to write books and be more public facing. However, I think most neuroscientists want to write something that relates to their professional work and is more interesting to them. Triune brain theory just isn't on radar.
Moreover, popular neuroscience is really really hard to do well. You need to find the overlap between the narrow controlled experiments of neuroscience and the messy realm of observable human behavior and experience. Things are that are known in the former are seldom known in the latter. Careful scientists know this and often feel alarmed when asked to talk about things outside the lab.
This leaves much of the writing, by default, to people who aren't concerned about being exact and who are happy to use technical terms as loose metaphors. Many of these aren't neuroscientists, but people who want a little neuro terminology to make their work seem cooler. Accurate neuroscience is not all that important to success in punditry and publishing. For example, psychiatrist Louann Brizendine's books on gender and the brain and economist Paul Zak's oxytocin book The Moral Molecule seem to me to write egregious neurobabble.
(There are certainly modules in the brain -- contemporary work statistically identifies which areas are active at the same time. There's a large cool literature on the default mode network, which is a pretty central concept in neuroscience: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_network ).
(edited to fix a typo)