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Interviews are Broken

erniemiller.org

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Re: Interviews are Broken

#11

Post by beat »

I have a simple rule of thumb when interviewing other people... I don't care so much what you know how to do, as much as I care how you handle what you don't know how to do. Technical skill can be discovered quickly enough in the interview process. Ways of thinking, that takes work.

As for the original article... if a company puts you through a long interview process, you should take advantage of it to learn about them as well, and see if it's where you want to work. Don't just be a replaceable part.

Re: Interviews are Broken

#12

Post by msluyter »

I think there's a lot of general recognition that the interview process is suboptimal, but it'll probably be slow to change at larger companies mostly out of inertia. Part of the problem is that developers tend to do most of the interviewing/phone-screening, and a lot of us don't like it and/or aren't very good at it. Thus, it's unlikely that we'll be willing to put much thought into improving the process (note, I have never had a performance goal related to interviewing). Usually, we just go with what we know, which is the standard white-boarding style interview.

That, and I wonder if there's a certain fraternity-like hazing element. One of our HR people recently brought up the possibility of removing one of our hiring steps (a take home programming assignment), and I found myself irrationally against the idea. I even joked that I wanted new candidates to suffer just like I did. On reflection, that might not have been a joke... Not particularly proud of it, but part of me resists changing the process because I did really well at it.

Re: Interviews are Broken

#13

Post by ryguytilidie »

Aqueous wrote: post #2

Yes. I have a new rule with recruiters. If you are trying to recruit me, make me an offer. Otherwise, go away. You called me, not the other way around. I'm not going to jump through a bunch of your hoops to prove to you for free that I can do what you already know that I can do just by looking at my resume, looking at some of my public projects, and asking me questions in an informal, short interview. And I'm certain…

My god this is such an ignorant comment . Stuff like this just makes Silicon Valley look pretty disgusting honestly. If you think a list of work you've done is the only thing a company should care about than there's really not much to argue about, you're just wrong.

Re: Interviews are Broken

#14

Post by BigChiefSmokem »

Peroni wrote: post #4
Aqueous wrote: post #2

Yes. I have a new rule with recruiters. If you are trying to recruit me, make me an offer. Otherwise, go away. You called me, not the other way around. I'm not going to jump through a bunch of your hoops to prove to you for free that I can do what you already know that I can do just by looking at my resume, looking at some of my public projects, and asking me questions in an informal, short interview. And I'm certain…

What I've done should be proof enough. It really isn't. It may be indicative of your technical ability however your past experience doesn't give me any indication if you'd be a good culture fit.

Isn't "cultural fit" another way to hide sexism, racism, and prejudice in the hiring process? I've seen it happen and it's a very good excuse to give to HR.

Just like in social situations you can judge anyone pretty well in the first 5 minutes of a phone conversation, see if they will "click" with your team - hell you can almost do that just by looking at their open source (how they think/design). I don't need a high school coding exam and a 2 hour panel interview to see if someone is a "cultural fit".

Re: Interviews are Broken

#16

Post by balloot »

This person sounds completely insufferable. He basically is declaring himself too good for interviews (except for C-level execs, whom he apparently tolerates). Heaven forbid you don't just assume Ernie Miller is god's gift to your job position, because he is Ernie Miller and he is a special unique snowflake who is not to be insulted with petty questions pertaining to his ability to do the job.

Anyway, good luck with that.

Re: Interviews are Broken

#17

Post by Peroni »

BigChiefSmokem wrote: post #14
Peroni wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I've done should be proof enough. It really isn't. It may be indicative of your technical ability however your past experience doesn't give me any indication if you'd be a good culture fit.

Isn't "cultural fit" another way to hide sexism, racism, and prejudice in the hiring process? I've seen it happen and it's a very good excuse to give to HR. Just like in social situations you can judge anyone pretty well in the first 5 minutes of a phone conversation, see if they will "click" with your team - hell you can almost do that just by looking at their open source (how they think/design). I don't need a high…

Isn't "cultural fit" another way to hide sexism, racism, and prejudice in the hiring process?

I'm sure that's the case in rare circumstances. The phrase 'cultural fit' is fairly common here in the UK but I agree it may be taken a bit too literally elsewhere. The cultural fit I'm referring to is attitude, work ethic, maturity, etc.

I don't need a high school coding exam and a 2 hour panel interview to see if someone is a "cultural fit".

Completely agree. I can't see how that scenario could give anyone an appropriate insight into a persons character. As explained in other comments below, a relaxed, two way conversation in a comfortable environment is one of the few ways of establishing how well a candidate would adapt to life at your company.

Re: Interviews are Broken

#18

Post by jasonlotito »

BigChiefSmokem wrote: post #14
Peroni wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I've done should be proof enough. It really isn't. It may be indicative of your technical ability however your past experience doesn't give me any indication if you'd be a good culture fit.

Isn't "cultural fit" another way to hide sexism, racism, and prejudice in the hiring process? I've seen it happen and it's a very good excuse to give to HR. Just like in social situations you can judge anyone pretty well in the first 5 minutes of a phone conversation, see if they will "click" with your team - hell you can almost do that just by looking at their open source (how they think/design). I don't need a high…

> Isn't "cultural fit" another way to hide sexism, racism, and prejudice in the hiring process?

While that may be, it doesn't mean cultural fit is only used in those cases.

There is a vast difference between someone who cares about doing their job well and someone who does their job. And 'cultural fit' will be used to describe that. Are you the type of person to put in your own time to advance your knowledge, or do you require the company to pay to keep you up to speed on the latest advances. I've seen both types of people.

And the former is more valuable than the latter. And the former generally won't want to work with the latter, either. Granted, the former will cost more than the latter, as he brings more value to the table.

You can argue the merits of 'cultural fit', but it's not just a word used to hide sexism, racism, and prejudice in the hiring process. And, personally, I think it's important because I want to enjoy the people I work with.

Re: Interviews are Broken

#19

Post by Aqueous »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #13
Aqueous wrote: post #2

Yes. I have a new rule with recruiters. If you are trying to recruit me, make me an offer. Otherwise, go away. You called me, not the other way around. I'm not going to jump through a bunch of your hoops to prove to you for free that I can do what you already know that I can do just by looking at my resume, looking at some of my public projects, and asking me questions in an informal, short interview. And I'm certain…

My god this is such an ignorant comment . Stuff like this just makes Silicon Valley look pretty disgusting honestly. If you think a list of work you've done is the only thing a company should care about than there's really not much to argue about, you're just wrong.

I guess you failed to read my comment.

Did I say it was the only thing? No. I said that the burden of proof shouldn't require three phone screens, a multi-hour (7 - 8+?) coding test, and then a 5 hour on-site interview. Companies are taking time out of people's lives to string them along on a hiring process that could last up to a month and a half, and still could result in absolutely no offer.

Second, I'm not merely referring to the list of things I've done. Like many people, I have public projects online that you can download and use, and in many cases, these projects have source trees that are publically available. Yet, most of the time, companies don't even care enough to do the background research of downloading the application and using it, or looking at the source of these applications to see if they are any good. I've submitted examples of work I've done and when I got to the on-site interview, the interviewer had no idea what I was talking about - hadn't used the application, hadn't seen the source, and in one case (where the application was actually quite popular) had never even heard of it, despite the fact that I'd mentioned it in at least two of my interviews.

Companies should be respectful of people's time. They shouldn't make the burden of proof so high that only the most desperate would ever agree to jump through these hoops knowing what they are in advance. I shouldn't have to complete a 10 hour programming test and then spend 5 hours proving to you on a white board that I can code. At what point do you say that my knowledge is general enough that I can pretty much approach and come to a meaningful solution for any problem that you can throw at me ? The combination of a short, in-person interview and a review of my work history and my references should be sufficient to get a grasp of my work skills and this vague concept of 'cultural fit' which seems to amount to, "Are you nice and respectful and a team player?"

Any thing beyond that is disrespectful to the candidate, especially if you are trying to recruit them away from another full-time position.

Re: Interviews are Broken

#20

Post by gedrap »

I think that we can simply say "no one has been fired for traditional interview". Yes, it is broken, ineffective, interviewees mostly hate it, some egos get hurt while solving fizzbuzz on the whiteboard, etc. But for an interviewer, it's a safe choice. It's something he has done hundreds of times, something the interviewee expects. He might miss some really good potential employees but at the end of the day, everyone will be ok. Trying something totally new requires some courage and stepping out of comfort zone, probably a lot, and that explains it.

And if we are talking about major corps, it would require lots of investment in terms of internal training, would take a while, in other words - it's expensive. And they still get a lot of top quality candidates, so why bother?

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