E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths) • Hacker News Board

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#11

Post by seiji » Fri, Sep 13, 2013, 6:38 PM UTC

Stwerp wrote: post #4

I can't find details of his hack, but I am curious if his detector detects actual read events (when his device responds with its ID) or if it is just an RF power detector. Is there a link to a technical description?

Check out http://www.youtube.com/user/defconpukingmonkey/videos for live demos.

His presentation is at https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-archives/dc-21-archive.... (The first section is on license plate readers. ezpass details start on slide 84. He starts with modifying his own ezpass to detect when it's being read then makes his own detector (slide 97) and runs it side by side with the pass. The new detector is much more sensitive and picks up being read basically everywhere.)

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#12

Post by oceanstone » Fri, Sep 13, 2013, 6:39 PM UTC

Phargo wrote: post #8

Is there any way to install a switch to kill the tag when you don't plan on using it? If that's possible, how difficult would it be to control this on/off switch with a spare smart phone based on approved GPS location?

Yes, you can put it in a special bag that blocks its signals. If you buy a FastTrak device for the SF Bay Area, it actually comes in the bag. Still, you have a license plate. (Unless you are like Steve Jobs, and lease a new car every 6 months)

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#13

Post by ejfox » Fri, Sep 13, 2013, 6:39 PM UTC

seiji wrote: post #5

His presentation also featured pictures he took of many NY police's personal cars with deliberately obscured license plates so they can't be automatically read (and other features like illegally too-tinted windows, etc). *edit: found the presentation at https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-archives/dc-21-archive....

I couldn't find a link in the article- is the presentation available online somewhere?

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#14

Post by joekrill » Fri, Sep 13, 2013, 6:47 PM UTC

ethomson wrote: post #6

I had thought it was common knowledge that E-ZPasses were used to collect real-time traffic estimates; certainly I've known for years that i-Pass (the Illinois equivalent) was used for this purpose. Unfortunately, some quick googling does not appear to locate any information on this, so now I don't remember where I heard / read this in the first place.

I'm in Philadelphia. They recently added large electronic signs on various highways with information on how long it will currently take to get to certain destinations. I vaguely remember reading they were using anonymous E-ZPass readings for this. So yes, I thought this was common knowledge, also.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#15

Post by diminoten » Fri, Sep 13, 2013, 6:51 PM UTC

Yet again, we arrive at a, "could" story, and not a "does" story.

The NSA "could" have you arrested for a crime you didn't commit by sharing intel it's collected about you! The NYPD "could" use your E-ZPass to track your movements through NYC! Google "could" access your Wi-Fi password as it's synced from your Android device!

I think people forget sometimes that 1984 was a work of fiction, and never actually happened.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#16

Post by dsl » Fri, Sep 13, 2013, 6:53 PM UTC

oceanstone wrote: post #10

ethomson wrote: post #6

I had thought it was common knowledge that E-ZPasses were used to collect real-time traffic estimates; certainly I've known for years that i-Pass (the Illinois equivalent) was used for this purpose. Unfortunately, some quick googling does not appear to locate any information on this, so now I don't remember where I heard / read this in the first place.

FastTrak (used in the SF Bay Area) have a warning, laying this out when you buy the devices. You don't actually need the device though, as each bridge using it also uses cameras to read license plates. It's more convenient this way, as you just need to register your vehicle on their website.

I don't keep plates on my car because of the abundance of plate tracking applications in use by the government and private companies.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#17

Post by Zikes » Fri, Sep 13, 2013, 6:59 PM UTC

diminoten wrote: post #15

Yet again, we arrive at a, "could" story, and not a "does" story. The NSA "could" have you arrested for a crime you didn't commit by sharing intel it's collected about you! The NYPD "could" use your E-ZPass to track your movements through NYC! Google "could" access your Wi-Fi password as it's synced from your Android device! I think people forget sometimes that 1984 was a work of fiction, and never actually happened.

The FBI "could" track your movements via cell phone data. The FBI "could" then provide that data to the DEA to help make an arrest. The NSA "could" keep a log of everyone you ever call or who calls you.

Not that we should have ever cared about those possibilities until they came to light, leaving us scrambling to cope with the consequences and attempt to repair the damage after the fact.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#18

Post by Zelphyr » Fri, Sep 13, 2013, 6:59 PM UTC

dsl wrote: post #16

oceanstone wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FastTrak (used in the SF Bay Area) have a warning, laying this out when you buy the devices. You don't actually need the device though, as each bridge using it also uses cameras to read license plates. It's more convenient this way, as you just need to register your vehicle on their website.

I don't keep plates on my car because of the abundance of plate tracking applications in use by the government and private companies.

Steve? I thought you were dead?

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#19

Post by Spooky23 » Fri, Sep 13, 2013, 7:03 PM UTC

This isn't news, and hasn't been hidden. EZ pass readers are plainly visible all over the place, including on the BQE in NYC and other places in NY. They give you an ESD bag to put your transmitter in.

As part of 511, state DOTs also purchase cell tower data to estimate speed on highways. My understanding is that is where the Google Maps traffic indicators come from.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#20

Post by PavlovsCat » Fri, Sep 13, 2013, 7:04 PM UTC

diminoten wrote: post #15

Yet again, we arrive at a, "could" story, and not a "does" story. The NSA "could" have you arrested for a crime you didn't commit by sharing intel it's collected about you! The NYPD "could" use your E-ZPass to track your movements through NYC! Google "could" access your Wi-Fi password as it's synced from your Android device! I think people forget sometimes that 1984 was a work of fiction, and never actually happened.

I think people forget sometimes that 1984 was a work of fiction, and never actually happened.

I don't think it's fiction, and I think it had happened before it was written even. There are still bugs of course, but those are being worked out as we speak.