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AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

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Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#11

Post by jonmrodriguez »

mbell wrote: post #7
fein wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always measure the capacitance between each row. Hell of a lot better than building a full circuit first, just to find out your BB sucks.

That usually doesn't help as a large source of the problematic parasitics is contact between the part's leads and the 'grippers' inside the breadboard. Lead diameter, corrosion, 'gripper' spring strength, etc all come into play there.

So if it's so random that you can't reliably measure it because it changes every time you plug and unplug the same pin (let alone different pin diameters), how can software hope to model it?

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#12

Post by stephengillie »

mrcharles wrote: post #10

I'd kill for an app like this that would help teach you electronics at the same time. I've wanted to start doing some robotics stuff, but haven't found much in terms of useful learning resources outside of just buying a full university textbook and hoping for the best.

Buy an Arduino/Launchpad/MSP430/other prototyping kit and start plugging things (motors/LEDs/other devices) into it. As long as all of your devices will work at the same voltage -- as long as everything is 5v or 3.3v or whatever -- they plug into breadboards like legos.

It took me 3 months from buying my first Arduino to using an ultrasonic distance sensor to control an RC car motor. http://gilgamech.blogspot.com

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#14

Post by stephengillie »

jonmrodriguez wrote: post #11
mbell wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That usually doesn't help as a large source of the problematic parasitics is contact between the part's leads and the 'grippers' inside the breadboard. Lead diameter, corrosion, 'gripper' spring strength, etc all come into play there.

So if it's so random that you can't reliably measure it because it changes every time you plug and unplug the same pin (let alone different pin diameters), how can software hope to model it?

Each time you virtually plug something in the program's breadboard, generate a random number. If the number is lower than a threshold, prevent the connection from working. Change the threshold at every program loading and randomly during use.

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#16

Post by mbell »

jonmrodriguez wrote: post #11
mbell wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That usually doesn't help as a large source of the problematic parasitics is contact between the part's leads and the 'grippers' inside the breadboard. Lead diameter, corrosion, 'gripper' spring strength, etc all come into play there.

So if it's so random that you can't reliably measure it because it changes every time you plug and unplug the same pin (let alone different pin diameters), how can software hope to model it?

When I say 'model it', I mean that loosely, perfect modeling of electronics circuits isn't realistic anyway, any modeling worth the effort will assume a range of possible values for anything under test. A simple example would be if the software warned the user that an active filter design was dangerously close to instability and thus had a decent chance of oscillating when real world parasitics are present.

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#17

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #4
mbell wrote: post #3

I wonder if it models the terrible parasitics of a real breadboard. I imagine it would be really annoying for beginners to build an IR receiver (or whatever) with the software, have it working perfectly, then try to build it on a real breadboard only to spend hours frustratingly trying to figure out why the circuit is oscillating.

Is there any software out there that includes these real-world models into the design side?

Umm, Spice[1]? I don't have a good model for a rusty piece of tin, but maybe someone does.

[1] Like all cheapskates, I use LTSpice.

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#18

Post by nanospider »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #4
mbell wrote: post #3

I wonder if it models the terrible parasitics of a real breadboard. I imagine it would be really annoying for beginners to build an IR receiver (or whatever) with the software, have it working perfectly, then try to build it on a real breadboard only to spend hours frustratingly trying to figure out why the circuit is oscillating.

Is there any software out there that includes these real-world models into the design side?

Yes, you can use something like AWR or ADS. Although they cost megabucks.
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