Misplaced incentives all over the place. This one is going to be messy. But as many people have pointed out, much more slow moving than the previous financial bubble.
This one is going to be messy. As someone who really hasn't thought about it very much, I'd love for someone to expand on this. What's the expected fallout? In the housing bubble, many people lost the places where they lived. But it's not like someone can "take back" your education if you default on the loan, so what happens instead?
The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst
11–20 of 289 posts
Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst
#12http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732416520457902...?
"Politicians subsidize the purchase of a good or service, prices inevitably rise in response to this pumped-up demand, and then the pols blame the provider of the good or service for responding to the incentives the politicians created. Think housing finance and medical care."
...
"We've got a crisis in terms of college affordability and student debt," said Mr. Obama, without a trace of irony at the State University of New York at Buffalo. The same man who three years ago forced through a plan to add $1 trillion in student loans to the federal balance sheet over a decade said on Thursday, "Our economy can't afford the trillion dollars in outstanding student loan debt."
Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst
#13Misplaced incentives all over the place. This one is going to be messy. But as many people have pointed out, much more slow moving than the previous financial bubble.
This one is going to be messy. As someone who really hasn't thought about it very much, I'd love for someone to expand on this. What's the expected fallout? In the housing bubble, many people lost the places where they lived. But it's not like someone can "take back" your education if you default on the loan, so what happens instead?
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/ripping-off-young-...
Short version: The government makes money off student loans, and there is no defaulting on them (unless you die of course). There are no incentives to keep tuition costs in check because the lenders (government) are happy to put more money into the asset class. We're getting to the point where the price of education can't be made up with an eventual increased salary. The author considers this to be an unfair tax on the lower middle class and an eventual drain on the economy.
Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst
#14Misplaced incentives all over the place. This one is going to be messy. But as many people have pointed out, much more slow moving than the previous financial bubble.
(I wish I was joking...)
Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
This one is going to be messy. As someone who really hasn't thought about it very much, I'd love for someone to expand on this. What's the expected fallout? In the housing bubble, many people lost the places where they lived. But it's not like someone can "take back" your education if you default on the loan, so what happens instead?
It's not the impact on the individual who's defaulting that is the kicker, it's more the effect on the originating bank and the parts of the financial system that packaged up that loan with others of its type into financial products that are incorporated into the investment strategies of pension funds, mutual funds, municipalities, etc.
Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst
#16Normally the interest you pay is the combination of three things:
1. The (inherent) time value of money
2. Expenses the lender incurs to keep up with the debt
3. The average default risk of those taking the loans
Student loans only price in 1 & 2 because of the near impossibility of not paying the loans back. Which is great in the short term as it means that more people are able to go to school because the interest rate is lower and thus they can afford more debt.
But a college education is a lot like a house. The price of a house isn't how much it's "worth", it's an artifact of how much money you have to pay every month for the privilege of living there. A house of a certain niceness is (everything else equal) going to cost the same amount of money per month whether the interest rate is 1% or 15%. A $1500/mo mortgage buys you $250k of house at 4% but only $150k of house at 9% and only $95k of house at 15% like in the early 80s. (http://www.bankrate.com/finance/mortgages/history-of-mortgag...)
By removing all the default risk from the pricing of student loans, more students are able to afford college which is exactly the intended effect of the laws. But the size of most academic institutions doesn't grow; most colleges don't admit twice as many students just because more are clamoring to get in. This excess demand and fixed supply means that colleges can raise prices. And thanks to the lowered interest rates those who could have afforded college prior to the law (and lower interest rates) are still able to afford it because the lowered interest rate has increased their borrowing capacity.
Those on the margin prior to the change in the law still aren't able to afford college once the price increases follow the increase in available money and additional demand for degrees.
The law was changed in 1978 and it's taken quite a few years for this unintended consequence to play out. It's really sad to see it happen. http://www.finaid.org/questions/bankruptcyexception.phtml
Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst
#17There are so many things wrong with the idea of a "bubble" popping. People can't walk away from student loan debt, like they can walk away from real estate debt. Interest rates are expected to rise, but only slightly with the 90-day T-bill yield. Not the insane rates 20% rates that banks were hitting people with in the subprime crisis.
People may find diminishing returns for college vs the rising costs, but that isn't the same thing as banks suckering people in with ARMs and then using leverage to make huge speculations on CDO's that lost 90% of their value.
Here's a madeup example from the subprime crisis. Someone puts $0 down and buys a $500k home with a loan from the bank. The bank expects to make $500k in interest over the lifetime of the loan due to ballooning interest. Now, let's say variable interest rates from the loan kicks in, and the person can no longer make his monthly payments.
In the past, when the real estate market was good, he could just sell the house for $600k, and keep a profit. But, lets say now the price of the home dropped to $300k. There is no way you are going to expect someone who put $0 down on a home he bought 2 years ago to cover $200k in debt for a home he doesn't even own any more due to foreclosure. So, now, instead of having something worth $500k in profit, the bank owns something that is a $200k loss.
Banks lost over a trillion dollars worth of assets in a matter of weeks.
Look at what was happening for years before the crisis though. In those times, it was very likely that a home could increase in value from $500k to $600k in a few years. How was that happening? A lot of it was because people figured out that they could put $10k down, and do this to make $100k, or 10x their investment in a few years. The true speculators are the people who just bought real estate only because they thought the price would keep going up. This in turn drives up the price without being tied to any kind of intrinsic value.
You simply don't have that kind of pure speculation in the college loan industry because you can't just buy and sell college degrees.
Also, people aren't just going to declare bankruptcy from their student loans in the same way as the subprime crisis because they legally can't. Wages can be garnished from student loans, and it's extremely hard to have the debt erased due to bankruptcy.
The "bubble" scenario is sensational, because everyone sees a trillion dollars evaporate in a few weeks. Instead, in the case of student loans, I think that we may see something just as bad for the economy, but it will happen over years, not weeks.
In a lot of ways, I think that's why this problem may be worse, because it may be just as bad, but much harder to notice than the subprime crisis. Journalists think that the only sign of economic failure is when a "bubble" pops though, which just isn't true. Slowed growth over 20 years could be just as bad if not worse.
Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst
#18Student loans cannot be discharged even if you declare bankruptcy - while home owners could walk away and hand the keys to the bank.
Student loans are guaranteed by the government - the issuers just file for compensation.
The sickening part is that once the lender gets paid in full for a non-performing loan they buy loan back from the government for 10% or so and then file a lien on any future earnings.
Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst
#19Just because people shout "bubble" at any exponential growth phenomenon doesn't really mean we can tell when "the bubble bursts". Crashes in growth curves are always unpredictable. You can predict that there will be a crash, but telling when it's going to happen, that's the hard part....
Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
This one is going to be messy. As someone who really hasn't thought about it very much, I'd love for someone to expand on this. What's the expected fallout? In the housing bubble, many people lost the places where they lived. But it's not like someone can "take back" your education if you default on the loan, so what happens instead?
The development of adult life is stunted. It takes longer to afford to rent an apartment on your own, buy a house, buy a car, get married, start a family, start a business, etc. If you're college educated you probably have a broad support network. So instead of being homeless, you move back in with your parents. So instead of losing your home, you may never get it in the first place. The consequences of defaulting on…
I am 25, and since my first serious job (I was 23) I've been in the government category for the most rich as possible in earning amount (the category is everyone in the top 5% of income... granted, there is still a GREAAAAT gap between the top and low of that... I reached the top 5% with 20k USD/year)
I don't own a vehicle (not even a bicycle), much less a living place.
I think if I sum all my possessions (literally, including my clothes, glasses, phone... without depreciation) and my debts, I am still negative.
According to my calculations, I will be able to buy my first apartment when I am about 35 years old, unless I move back with my parents and stop paying rent. Also I won't bother in buying a vehicle, unless it become really, really necessary (and then, I will buy a chinese QQ or J2)
When I think about that, it is really, really, really depressing and ridiculous.