Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated • Hacker News Board

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#11

Post by oceanstone » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 7:01 AM UTC

rbourke wrote: post #9

The effectiveness of vaccines rely on 'herd immunity', that is: you need more than 90% of a population immunised to stop a disease spreading (as vaccines are never 100% effective)(also varies according to vaccine types/adjuvants and disease contagiousness) So by not vaccinating your self/dependents you are actually extremely selfish as you are benefiting from herd immunity whilst at the same time avoiding the (small)…

From my research, people who avoid vaccines are usually afraid of (big) side reactions, like infertility or autism.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#12

Post by merraksh » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 7:01 AM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #6

Way to miss the point. This is so much bigger than just vaccines, encompassing distrust of authorities, misunderstandings about the existence of god, etc. But sure lets focus on vaccines.

I'd rather think his point is precisely that: distrust of authority, misunderstanding about the existence of god are just distractions from reality, and the wrong tools to face it. When disease=reality hits, he says, vaccines are the right weapon.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#13

Post by philwelch » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 7:02 AM UTC

yuhong wrote: post #2

Personally I recommend keeping vaccine exemptions but not encourage people to use them.

I recommend quarantining these people in their own communities and refusing public assistance when they inevitably get outbreaks of preventable disease.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#14

Post by colonelxc » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 7:03 AM UTC

rbourke wrote: post #9

The effectiveness of vaccines rely on 'herd immunity', that is: you need more than 90% of a population immunised to stop a disease spreading (as vaccines are never 100% effective)(also varies according to vaccine types/adjuvants and disease contagiousness) So by not vaccinating your self/dependents you are actually extremely selfish as you are benefiting from herd immunity whilst at the same time avoiding the (small)…

Here is an in-browser demonstration of herd immunity[1], which I think shows the importance pretty well. It was posted on HN before[2].

[1] http://op12no2.me/toys/herd/index.php?scenario=intro

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5190234

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#15

Post by sliverstorm » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 7:04 AM UTC

jared314 wrote: post #4

> Most people have not lived in a time of plagues or remember their effects. Most people do not read history or look at the morbidity and mortality of vaccine-preventable illnesses in the third world. This is another great example of why people need to be taught actual history, not the version censored "for their young minds". The people who change curricula and edit textbooks to remove the unpleasant memories, or fo…

I think people's own minds provide some of that effect. Firstly, secretly wondering if the numbers aren't being exaggerated for effect and that sort of thinking. Secondly, it's difficult to really wrap your head around a disease that killed a third of the population. It's so ridiculous it's hard to fathom.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#16

Post by sitharus » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 7:06 AM UTC

I've had the fun experience of debating with anti-vaccine people. Outside of the religious 'god will protect us' line, which I can't really argue with as it's a matter of faith, the vaccines cause autism line keeps coming up.

Unfortunately for us a condition that we don't really understand is far more prevalent than the side-effects of preventable diseases. I've never met anyone who's experienced post-polio syndrome or given birth to a child with congenital rubella. Alas I had measles myself, but I was too young to have been vaccinated.

This coupled with our odd perception of risk leads to people abandoning something that demonstrably saves lives because of the minor risk of side-effects. Having done some minor work with autistic children it's certainly not as bad or as certain as the documented outcomes of disease.

I don't think much will change people's minds until the diseases return, but I will be keeping up on the pro-vaccination side.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#17

Post by Patrick_Devine » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 7:07 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

hitchhiker999 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have spoken, all interactions within biological sciences are decided. Thanks for that.

If you have valid, replicatable evidence where vaccines cause harm, I'm all ears. But if you're going to rely on anecdotal evidence, GTFO. I'm tired of hearing people not vaccinating their children and causing public health issues because they believe they're more informed than the CDC.

Here's an example where vaccines cause harm: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/09...

By and large though, vaccines are amazing. Just the fact that we have a vaccine which can protect against influenza is pretty fantastic. Life unfortunately always throws you spanners, so even though I think the people who live in the vaccine autism universe are bat shit crazy, it's still good to have people taking both sides of the issue. This is despite how freaking frustrating it can be when one side is arguing with opinion and the other is arguing with facts.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#18

Post by sliverstorm » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 7:13 AM UTC

sitharus wrote: post #16

I've had the fun experience of debating with anti-vaccine people. Outside of the religious 'god will protect us' line, which I can't really argue with as it's a matter of faith, the vaccines cause autism line keeps coming up. Unfortunately for us a condition that we don't really understand is far more prevalent than the side-effects of preventable diseases. I've never met anyone who's experienced post-polio syndrome…

The folks who skip out on vaccination are (consciously or not) doing one or both of the following:

1) Counting on the herd immunity provided by everyone else to keep them safe

2) Pretending that the diseases which are being vaccinated against "really weren't all that bad" or maybe "didn't happen often"

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#19

Post by drewrv » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 7:16 AM UTC

rbourke wrote: post #9

The effectiveness of vaccines rely on 'herd immunity', that is: you need more than 90% of a population immunised to stop a disease spreading (as vaccines are never 100% effective)(also varies according to vaccine types/adjuvants and disease contagiousness) So by not vaccinating your self/dependents you are actually extremely selfish as you are benefiting from herd immunity whilst at the same time avoiding the (small)…

Worse, some people can't get certain vaccines, due to health/immune issues. They actually need herd immunity to stay alive. By refusing to get vaccinated, you're putting already sick people at risk.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#20

Post by raphinou » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 7:22 AM UTC

I am not against vaccines, it saves lives, but sometimes i have the feeling we may not get sick anymore, with all proposals for inefficient vaccines against benign affections. Sadly both camps (pro and anti vaccines) have too extreme positions to have a constructive debate.