The Face Scan Arrives • Hacker News Board

Re: The Face Scan Arrives

#11

Post by varelse » Fri, Aug 30, 2013, 4:54 PM UTC

Given the 15.8% success rate of the cat detector on large data sets: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1112.6209.pdf&embedded=true,

My chief worry is overconfidence from hopelessly technologically ignorant bureaucrats combined with a slew of false negatives and false positives when applied to human faces on general surveillance feeds.

In contrast, driver's license, ID, and arrest photos are at least severely constrained input filters wherein a single individual is placed against relatively uncomplicated background pixels and the face is in roughly the same orientation.

Re: The Face Scan Arrives

#12

Post by frenger » Fri, Aug 30, 2013, 4:55 PM UTC

wicknicks wrote: post #2

Does anyone know how this can be technically achieved? Large scale face recognition with 1 photo per person in the training set?

Well, we know they archive Facebook content so go figure

Re: The Face Scan Arrives

#13

Post by varelse » Fri, Aug 30, 2013, 4:57 PM UTC

wicknicks wrote: post #2

Does anyone know how this can be technically achieved? Large scale face recognition with 1 photo per person in the training set?

It could certainly narrow the field. Combine a vector of "features" derived from the single image that with a bunch of other orthogonal "features" such as location and I could see it improving efficiency of manhunts significantly.

Just beware of Bonferroni's Principle:

http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/352689/bonferronis-p...

Re: The Face Scan Arrives

#14

Post by dougmccune » Fri, Aug 30, 2013, 4:59 PM UTC

frenger wrote: post #4

> "While this sort of technology may have benefits for law enforcement (recall that the suspects in the Boston Marathon bombings were identified with help from camera footage), it also invites abuse." 1. Yes /without/ this technology, and 2. How would that have prevented the Boston tragedy if it were in use? What exactly does NYT mean here.

When they identified the first blurred images of the suspects' faces they put out the images hoping people could help identify the faces they were interested in. I assume they're saying that with better technology they'd be able to instantly identify those faces, instead of relying on putting them up on TV (where the suspects can see them and know they're on to them). So it wouldn't have prevented the attack, but it theoretically would have made the identification easier, and the arrests faster/less deadly I suppose.

Re: The Face Scan Arrives

#15

Post by nathan_long » Fri, Aug 30, 2013, 5:01 PM UTC

wicknicks wrote: post #2

Does anyone know how this can be technically achieved? Large scale face recognition with 1 photo per person in the training set?

Maybe not in realtime, but they could store all the images and maybe have software presort faces by similarity. Then if they became interested in a specific person, they could input more training images and sift through the set of similar ones.

They might find hundreds of pictures of you with timestamps and locations.

(This is all speculation; I haven't written image recognition software myself.)

Re: The Face Scan Arrives

#16

Post by nathan_long » Fri, Aug 30, 2013, 5:02 PM UTC

varelse wrote: post #11

Given the 15.8% success rate of the cat detector on large data sets: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1112.6209.pdf&embedded=true , My chief worry is overconfidence from hopelessly technologically ignorant bureaucrats combined with a slew of false negatives and false positives when applied to human faces on general surveillance feeds. In contrast, driver's license, ID, and arrest photos are at least severely constrained input fi…

I don't know about the cat detector, but Picasa seems able to identify people in photos pretty well, despite varying positions and lighting conditions.

It creeps me out.

Granted, they are working with the much smaller set of people I know rather than the whole populace. But technology only gets better.

Re: The Face Scan Arrives

#17

Post by ryusage » Fri, Aug 30, 2013, 5:05 PM UTC

unono wrote: post #6

If VR headsets like Oculus Rift take off, this problem can be mitigated. People will walk around with headsets to cover their entire face, defeating the cameras. Surveillance is going to happen, if you ban government surveillance, the public will get this tech and drones and be doing it anyway. So the robust way to fight it is to plan your life knowing that you can always be monitored and someone will always know whe…

A friend of mine sent me this video just yesterday, showing the feed from a FPV quadcopter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrVLh6r8hd8&feature=player_de...

Because it wasn't clear to me at first, I'll just point out that the pilot for this thing is using a VR headset similar to Oculus Rift, and the video is sent back to him over wifi. Supposedly the range is on the order of a mile or so.

I didn't even realize this was a feasible thing already! Looking into it, you can get these things for only $1500 or so. And so suddenly I've just realized, 10 or 20 years from now, it's not just the police who will be flying these things around. Why not buy one to use for your own neighborhood watch, right?

Hell, I'd love the chance to fly one of these around just for fun.

Re: The Face Scan Arrives

#18

Post by IanCal » Fri, Aug 30, 2013, 5:06 PM UTC

wicknicks wrote: post #2

Does anyone know how this can be technically achieved? Large scale face recognition with 1 photo per person in the training set?

Why does it need to be a single photo? Mandate that when you get your passport/driving license theres a face scan. Wouldn't be amazing tech and could be introduced fairly easily.

Re: The Face Scan Arrives

#19

Post by astrodust » Fri, Aug 30, 2013, 5:09 PM UTC

wes-exp wrote: post #3

As the article says, "Before the advent of these new technologies, time and effort created effective barriers to surveillance abuse. But those barriers are now being removed. They must be rebuilt in the law." Time and effort maintained privacy in the past, by default. However, as technology improves, privacy is no longer the default, so we need to request it, specifically. I hear again and again that "no one cares ab…

Guess it's time for dazzle paint to become a trendy new fashion statement. (Example: http://cvdazzle.com/).

Someone like Lady Gaga is basically untrackable if she's wearing any of her usual ununsual outfits.

Re: The Face Scan Arrives

#20

Post by marincounty » Fri, Aug 30, 2013, 5:15 PM UTC

unono wrote: post #6

If VR headsets like Oculus Rift take off, this problem can be mitigated. People will walk around with headsets to cover their entire face, defeating the cameras. Surveillance is going to happen, if you ban government surveillance, the public will get this tech and drones and be doing it anyway. So the robust way to fight it is to plan your life knowing that you can always be monitored and someone will always know whe…

1. I know one thing. I am tired of my picture taken whenever I walk into a store. In order to buy a bolt at that mess of a store(the big orange); my picture is taken multiple times. It pisses off customers like myself, and every year for as long as I can remember, the majority of theft is internal. The worst offenders are Management.

I think you will see a rise in people wearing desquises? Or, maybe an Indian will eventually sue the offending store on religious grounds? (steal the soul)

Yea, I'm rambling, but I sometimes feel like we lost all privacy? And yes, this is the only site I comment on anymore. I don't even trust this site. I bet they are logging in all IP's, and saving them just in case the government comes a knocking?