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Nearly a fifth of scientists are considering abandoning the U.S.

salon.com

11–20 of 57 posts

Re: Nearly a fifth of scientists are considering abandoning the U.S.

#11
post #2

What a shitty article. I hit "back" when the article went to the trouble of putting up an entire chart to show: "spending on R&D has essentially been flat since 2011 across several countries including the U.S."

Are you referring to the chart that illustrates funding as a percent of GDP? If so, I think that the numbers may be larger than you think. Half a hundredth of a percent of the US GDP is still 7.5 billion dollars per year.

To put this into perspective: The entire annual NSF budget is $7 billion. From Wikipedia:

"With an annual budget of about US$7.0 billion (fiscal year 2012), the NSF funds approximately 20% of all federally supported basic research conducted by the United States' colleges and universities.[1] In some fields, such as mathematics, computer science, economics and the social sciences, the NSF is the major source of federal backing."

The entire NIH budget is 30 billion a year. NASA's is 18 billion.

The second chart of the article shows that adjusted for inflation, the purchasing power of scientific funding has decreased from 10-30% since 2004.

The article is pretty bad, but I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the issue. If you work out the numbers, it's still an alarming problem.

I think that the article should do the math for the audience to better report on the problem though. Five minutes of following links looks like the Salon article is a summary of the Huffington Post article, which is a summary of the original report by the American Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology (ASBMB).

Re: Nearly a fifth of scientists are considering abandoning the U.S.

#12
post #3

I agree with the idea that we should invest more in scientific research in this country. But the 18% considering leaving the country metric is insane. This is like the percentage of people who claimed they were moving to Canada when Bush was reelected, and the percentage of people who said they were leaving the country when Obama was (re)elected. People talk big all the time when they're unhappy about something. EDIT…

I suspect it could be because so many scientists are foreign-born. If I traveled to a foreign country to do science research, and then got laid off, I'd certainly consider returning home.

Also, considering a course of action is far from following through with it. I've considered all sorts of actions that I would never commit.

Re: Nearly a fifth of scientists are considering abandoning the U.S.

#13
post #3

I agree with the idea that we should invest more in scientific research in this country. But the 18% considering leaving the country metric is insane. This is like the percentage of people who claimed they were moving to Canada when Bush was reelected, and the percentage of people who said they were leaving the country when Obama was (re)elected. People talk big all the time when they're unhappy about something. EDIT…

At least 40% of the people I went to (grad) school with were non-natives. Many of them (about half) went back to their home country (to get academic jobs, typically). So, it could simply be that the base rate of people leaving is 20% now, just like it was before, and the article is reporting on a non-issue.

Then again, I left academic 6 years ago for the exact reasons listed- I wasn't able to spend my time doing science.

Re: Nearly a fifth of scientists are considering abandoning the U.S.

#15
post #3

I agree with the idea that we should invest more in scientific research in this country. But the 18% considering leaving the country metric is insane. This is like the percentage of people who claimed they were moving to Canada when Bush was reelected, and the percentage of people who said they were leaving the country when Obama was (re)elected. People talk big all the time when they're unhappy about something. EDIT…

> they're unhappy about something

emphasis added

Re: Nearly a fifth of scientists are considering abandoning the U.S.

#17
post #3

I agree with the idea that we should invest more in scientific research in this country. But the 18% considering leaving the country metric is insane. This is like the percentage of people who claimed they were moving to Canada when Bush was reelected, and the percentage of people who said they were leaving the country when Obama was (re)elected. People talk big all the time when they're unhappy about something. EDIT…

> the percentage of people who said they were leaving the country when Obama was (re)elected.

I don't get this. Most of these people were presumably conservatives, that were unhappy with Obama's election, but at the same time, most of their ideological/political views would seem incompatible with living anywhere other than the US.

[ I realize that this is probably horrible stereotyping, but I would be interested to talk to someone that held this view. ]

Re: Nearly a fifth of scientists are considering abandoning the U.S.

#19
Story time? I'm a graduate studentat a US college. I study quantum computing, and have for the past year. I went into quantum computing despite the primary investigator being unsure of HHS funding situation, because it was something I had wanted to study for a very long time and I liked the opportunity too much to pass it up.

In July, my advisor told me that our funding had been retroactively taken by the sequester. He had lost funding for 4 graduate students and two postdocs. I am currently transferring to another school as a result of this.

The most promising locations are nearby Toronto and Madrid. Spain. They're broke, but they still fund science better than we do. I guess.

Re: Nearly a fifth of scientists are considering abandoning the U.S.

#20
Economics -> Research priorities

"Because of science - not religion or politics - even people like you and me can have possessions that only a hundred years ago kings would have gone to war to own. Scientific method should not be take lightly.

The walls of the ivory tower of science collapsed when bureaucrats realized that there were jobs to be had and money to be made in the administration and promotion of science. Governments began making big investments just prior to World War II...

Science was going to determine the balance of power in the postwar world. Governments went into the science business big time.

Scientists became administrators of programs that had a mission. Probably the most important scientific development of the twentieth century is that economics replaced curiosity as the driving force behind research...

James Buchanan noted thirty years ago - and he is still correct - that as a rule, there is no vested interest in seeing a fair evaluation of a public scientific issue. Very little experimental verification has been done to support important societal issues in the closing years of this century...

People believe these things...because they have faith."

From Kary Mullis, the Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner(and the genius inventor of PCR) in an excellent essay in his book "Dancing Naked in the Mind Field".

Side note: The book, overall, is ok - some of the stories/opinions he holds are "alternative" and a refreshing perspective.

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