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Paul Graham on CEOs with ‘Strong’ Foreign Accents

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Re: Paul Graham on CEOs with ‘Strong’ Foreign Accents

#11

Post by BobbyH »

All the famous entrepreneurs mentioned in this story have very light accents. I found YouTube videos with these entrepreneurs speaking, and none of them have "accents so strong that you have to interrupt the conversation to ask what they just said.":

* Vinod Khosla, Sun Microsystems co-founder and now a venture capitalis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxYVOMj6F2U&t=1m2s

* Adobe’s Shantanu Narayen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TShENN3VVX8&t=0m29s

* Tesla’s Elon Musk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDwzmJpI4io&t=2m33s

* Sergey Brin, co-founder of Google: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vv0NKieCoI&t=5m59s

Re: Paul Graham on CEOs with ‘Strong’ Foreign Accents

#12

Post by vasilipupkin »

GuiA wrote: post #3

PG has clarified what he meant in HN comments for the original article: "I am talking about failure to communicate here. I don't mean strong accents in the sense that it's clear that someone comes from another country. I'm talking about accents so strong that you have to interrupt the conversation to ask what they just said." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6279918

This makes a lot of sense to me. Originally, I thought PG was confusing correlation with causation and projecting from a relatively small number of data points. But I agree, if the accent is so strong that it's hard to understand, that person will have a more difficult time being an effective CEO

Re: Paul Graham on CEOs with ‘Strong’ Foreign Accents

#13

Post by DrewAllyn »

jacquesm wrote: post #8

Hm. That's not the nicest quote to be out there (it's missing quite a bit of important context too). Paul you should really either retract that or nuance it but as it sits this reads pretty bad, even if it might be true . But I doubt it is true, accents have nothing to do with people's brains, they have everything to do with what your first language was and for how long that language was your only language. If you we…

He already did clarify that he is specifically referring to accents that make the person unable to communicate clearly or easily.

Re: Paul Graham on CEOs with ‘Strong’ Foreign Accents

#14

Post by jacquesm »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #12
GuiA wrote: post #3

PG has clarified what he meant in HN comments for the original article: "I am talking about failure to communicate here. I don't mean strong accents in the sense that it's clear that someone comes from another country. I'm talking about accents so strong that you have to interrupt the conversation to ask what they just said." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6279918

This makes a lot of sense to me. Originally, I thought PG was confusing correlation with causation and projecting from a relatively small number of data points. But I agree, if the accent is so strong that it's hard to understand, that person will have a more difficult time being an effective CEO

> that person will have a more difficult time being an effective CEO

In an English speaking community. But in their own country they'd be fine. This is about YC applicants. That really needs to be included in the quote, she moved the leading question to the part below it, which gives an entirely different impression than if that were the introduction.

Re: Paul Graham on CEOs with ‘Strong’ Foreign Accents

#15

Post by sp332 »

jacquesm wrote: post #10
Jemaclus wrote: post #7

I was rather surprised when he said that. Not that strong foreign accents tend to fail, but more that he would actually say such an un-politically correct thing. One thing entrepreneurs have to do is sell. Not just products, but ideas, visions, and strategies. They have to be able to convert industry talk into laymen's terms. They need to be able to convince someone who doesn't know anything about X that Y is the way…

It's perfectly possible to run a business entirely in French, Dutch, German, Finnish, Swedish, Japanese, Chinese and so on. Not all businesses are international, not all business address an English speaking audience or employees etc.

But are any of them asking YC for funding?

Re: Paul Graham on CEOs with ‘Strong’ Foreign Accents

#16

Post by jongraehl »

I ran into the idea that people are biased against thick accents in '59 seconds':

   "If the gloves don’t fit, you must acquit." Rhyme is actually persuasive. 
   (In general things that are easier to understand/remember are more persuasive; 
    people distrust the same words said in a thick foreign accent, for that reason).
http://graehl.org/2011/02/02/59-seconds-is-a-good-self-help-...

Re: Paul Graham on CEOs with ‘Strong’ Foreign Accents

#17

Post by wildwood »

jacquesm wrote: post #8

Hm. That's not the nicest quote to be out there (it's missing quite a bit of important context too). Paul you should really either retract that or nuance it but as it sits this reads pretty bad, even if it might be true . But I doubt it is true, accents have nothing to do with people's brains, they have everything to do with what your first language was and for how long that language was your only language. If you we…

If you were born in Bulgaria, Hungary or a hundred other places and your first exposure to English in bulk and attempts to speak it started at the age of 10 or later you'll have a fairly strong accent no matter what.

Sorry, but this is just wrong. Anyone who first learned English as an adult can improve their accent from strong to mild over time, with effort, if they choose to. If they live in an immersive English-speaking environment, this will often happen without conscious effort, as long as they value communication.

Anyone whose strongly-accented English doesn't improve after a few years in-country doesn't value communicating well. (Either that, or they just spend all their time in a native-language enclave.) And someone who doesn't value communicating well should not be in the role of CEO.

Re: Paul Graham on CEOs with ‘Strong’ Foreign Accents

#18

Post by boards2x »

jacquesm wrote: post #8

Hm. That's not the nicest quote to be out there (it's missing quite a bit of important context too). Paul you should really either retract that or nuance it but as it sits this reads pretty bad, even if it might be true . But I doubt it is true, accents have nothing to do with people's brains, they have everything to do with what your first language was and for how long that language was your only language. If you we…

Must agree. It's a stupid comment and it's embarrassing to see how PG fanboys here are walking on eggshells trying to force some sense into what seems to be the unavailing of a xenophobe. Look at early days Hollywood. It was founded, literally, by foreigners with thick accents. What a lame and nauseating comment.

Re: Paul Graham on CEOs with ‘Strong’ Foreign Accents

#19

Post by vasilipupkin »

jacquesm wrote: post #14
vasilipupkin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes a lot of sense to me. Originally, I thought PG was confusing correlation with causation and projecting from a relatively small number of data points. But I agree, if the accent is so strong that it's hard to understand, that person will have a more difficult time being an effective CEO

> that person will have a more difficult time being an effective CEO In an English speaking community. But in their own country they'd be fine. This is about YC applicants . That really needs to be included in the quote, she moved the leading question to the part below it, which gives an entirely different impression than if that were the introduction.

Yes, of course. I meant in the U.S.

Re: Paul Graham on CEOs with ‘Strong’ Foreign Accents

#20

Post by jacquesm »

wildwood wrote: post #17
jacquesm wrote: post #8

Hm. That's not the nicest quote to be out there (it's missing quite a bit of important context too). Paul you should really either retract that or nuance it but as it sits this reads pretty bad, even if it might be true . But I doubt it is true, accents have nothing to do with people's brains, they have everything to do with what your first language was and for how long that language was your only language. If you we…

If you were born in Bulgaria, Hungary or a hundred other places and your first exposure to English in bulk and attempts to speak it started at the age of 10 or later you'll have a fairly strong accent no matter what. Sorry, but this is just wrong. Anyone who first learned English as an adult can improve their accent from strong to mild over time, with effort, if they choose to. If they live in an immersive English-sp…

I know quite a few foreigners here in NL that have worked very hard at getting rid of their accents and in spite of all that hard work they've reached a plateau.

We're not talking 'English' or 'Australian' wants to get rid of their accent when living in the US. PG specifically states that the accent of the person speaking is so thick you'd have to interrupt them several times for clarification just because of that. Such a thing does not fade away in a short time. That takes many years, if you work hard at it.

Take into account here that those that apply to YC will often do so from abroad, without significant practice in speaking English.

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