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Fluffing your CV with skills

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Re: Fluffing your CV with skills

#11
I am recently out of College, and I don't have a job, so let me see if I can give you an example of the curve, and clarify why your expectations seem to be wrong.

I don't know where I would have used CentOS (I'd guess bash is the default interactive shell, but I don't know for sure).

Most people in Linux classes would use Putty on Windows to log into the school machine. I installed Linux Mint, other's used bash on Mac OS X, and I know of one guy who ran Arch. That puts us slightly ahead of the curve.

So I know local bash commands. I know enough make to compile my c code with a Makefile that I copy and modify. As

I have to look up ssh and rsync options. When would I, as a student, really be doing stuff across linux machines? I have picked up a bit of bash scripting (helped by the fact that I learned perl, and perl is closer to bash then you would think), but that's less than usual. Most people who know Python script in python and so on, and may ignore linux commands and pipelining in favor of their preferred language's built in's.

The Zend thing is a little weird, but most people going into entry level jobs expect to learn the specific framework on the job. Hell sometimes the specific language. I don't know if I would list Zend on my resume if I had only that guy's experience, but a course in OO PHP is pretty specific for a college course. Unless Zend is driving PHP usage like Rails did for Ruby, The guy expected to be able to demonstrate the capacity to learn it and understanding of the underpinnings (PHP and OO), not actually how to do it. Apparently that guy got an interview, and more modest people probably didn't.

I certainly list Perl and will say I can do OO Perl code, but I have never used Moose, just old fashioned blessed hashes.

At entry level, you should hire the person, not the skills. Have they written code for something outside of a school project? Have they written code for their personal use? Are they still learning? Can they articulate their understandings of relevant concepts clearly? Can they program something in their preferred language and one or two more to show the ability to generalize?

A good entry level candidate can do most (but not necessarily all) of the above.

Entry is about talents, not skills, and that's what you should be looking for.

Maybe my expectations aren't par for the course where you are, but remember that the best candidates, the guys who have been programming since they were 8 and write their own lisp compilers, they have jobs lined up before they graduate.

You can always contact professors at local schools who teach classes relevant to your job openings, and ask them what gets a good grade, and what is an average grade.

Calibrate your expectations. Expect people who aren't qualified will try to get the interview anyway. Expect that people won't know as much as you, or even as much as you did when you were just graduated.

Re: Fluffing your CV with skills

#12
I think your cynicism is merited. It never ceases to amaze me how many competent people there are in the world who are incapable of articulating their own competence. However, on some level, I'm rather glad for that, because most people don't want to hear how awesome you are. In fact, most hiring personnel don't want to hear how awesome you are, so it's better to let your work speak for itself.

I edit CVs on the side (because I'm an editor), and I find people 'fluff' their applications for a wide variety of professions.

The advice I generally offer is this, and maybe you can confirm/deny whether it applies to your hiring approach?

1) Wage war on adjectives, they offer the reader nothing and merely take up space. 2) Talk about projects, not positions or skills – in the course of discussing the project, discuss honestly what skills you brought to it and what your role was; articulate what you learned on the way; and tell me the conclusion of the project. It can be bullet points, but let it tell a story that's easy to understand. 3) Discuss outcomes. If your project was scaled, resulted in a sale, became a template for similar initiatives, or made your colleagues' lives easier, discuss that outcome.

It would be nice to learn whether I'm steering people in the right direction, if you don't mind sharing... In any event, when I have to advise on a new hire, I usually appeal to those three criteria when reading a resume, and I toss anything that doesn't meet it.

Re: Fluffing your CV with skills

#13
I think you're being overly generous here by calling it 'fluff'. I'd call it 'lies'.

I'm like you. A couple of months ago I screened a candidate who listed 'Object-oriented Javascript' in second place on his list of skills. I asked him a really tough, brutal question to test this limits of his knowledge on this:

"How do you do object orientation in JavaScript?"

Blank look. Silence. Okay, let's help him out: "Well, JavaScript doesn't give you a 'class' keyword or an 'inherits' keyword. So how would we write OO code?"

"... To be honest, I've only ever done it in jQuery." he said.

"Oh right, okay. I've never done it in jQuery. How does it work in jQuery?" I asked. Silence again. No hire.

I have no idea why people expect this stuff to pay off. It wasn't a front-end job; OO JS wasn't a job requirement and wasn't listed on the job ad. Why put it so high up on your CV if you don't know anything about it? Why put it on there at all?

Re: Fluffing your CV with skills

#14

I think you're being overly generous here by calling it 'fluff'. I'd call it 'lies'. I'm like you. A couple of months ago I screened a candidate who listed 'Object-oriented Javascript' in second place on his list of skills. I asked him a really tough, brutal question to test this limits of his knowledge on this: "How do you do object orientation in JavaScript?" Blank look. Silence. Okay, let's help him out: "Well, Ja…

There are places that pay well and don't ask many if any technical questions. If you get to the interviews and are a good cultural fit you are in. Unfortunate but true.

Re: Fluffing your CV with skills

#15

I think you're being overly generous here by calling it 'fluff'. I'd call it 'lies'. I'm like you. A couple of months ago I screened a candidate who listed 'Object-oriented Javascript' in second place on his list of skills. I asked him a really tough, brutal question to test this limits of his knowledge on this: "How do you do object orientation in JavaScript?" Blank look. Silence. Okay, let's help him out: "Well, Ja…

Yeah, outright lies like that are definitely bad. But various recruiters have asked me to add some skills to my CV that I personally considered not interesting enough to mention.

Like Scrum. I've worked in Scrum, and I love it. But I didn't really consider it a skill until recruiters pointed out that clients wanted clear Scrum experience.

I've listed SOAP. Is it a skill? It's fairly trivial to work with. (Though I'm amazed some people manage to mess it up. Tools do everything for you. How do you mess that up? But somehow they do.) But I've got experience with it, so I list it, though I'm hardly a SOAP guru.

I don't list Linux, because I'm no system admin. I do know my way around the command line, but everybody programmer can do that, right? Right?

So I've got some skills listed that I consider fluff, but they're not lies. I consider them fluff because they don't really add much, and are certainly not on the same level as a language or framework, but I list them anyway because hiring managers care about them.

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