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Loyalty and Layoffs

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11–20 of 139 posts

Re: Loyalty and Layoffs

#11
post #5

When he said the first story happened in 2002, I was expecting to hear a story about getting your workstation as a severence package. I knew so many people during the crash who had the most random computer and office equipment. All 'acquired' when their company went out of business. Aeron chair. Anthro cart. Sun Ultra 10, loaded. $4,000 Toshiba laptop. Occaisonaly some Cisco kit or a fairly beefy server. "This used t…

My brother-in-law is an accountant who specialises in insolvency. He doesn't touch tech company failures, because there are usually no assets they can sell to pay creditors. Believe it or not computers are actually very hard to sell unless you outsource it to one of the big auction places. I've picked up a number of computers from them for nothing, because it's all rotting in their office basement, jobs wrapped up, "assets" unable to be sold for small change.

So companies will try and package up your severance to include things like your work laptop (which you've maybe become attached to), they can put a $ value on it, and mark it off what you're owed, but in reality you're losing out. Better to take cash rather than hardware, unless there is no cash.

Re: Loyalty and Layoffs

#12
It's been my point of view since the first dot-com crash that my employer and I are "even" every payday. I've done my work, and been compensated for it. I'm not sure what else one can reasonably expect.

Re: Loyalty and Layoffs

#13
I've gone through a number of these company bust-ups. The first one was fairly traumatic for a lot of people, but I'd only been there 3 months. 2001, In my interview, when I was asked "Is there anything you'd like to ask us" I said, "look this is awkward, but I've seen the company mentioned on fuckedcompany.com a number of times, and it's all bad news, is there any concern?" and I received the answer "Oh that's our American parent company, we'll be unaffected". 3 months later, gone gone gone. I watched people who'd worked there/started the company get turfed out, and crying. I had barely been in the office (working offsite) so I didn't even really feel any attachment at all, so it was all quite surreal.

Next job I worked for a small company where the two directors ended up being unable to pay staff, so they put everything on their credit cards, and convinced everyone to resign and sign up as contractors. It was only years later that it dawned on me, that by resigning they didn't have to pay severance packages. We were young and trusting.

Re: Loyalty and Layoffs

#14
post #11
post #5

When he said the first story happened in 2002, I was expecting to hear a story about getting your workstation as a severence package. I knew so many people during the crash who had the most random computer and office equipment. All 'acquired' when their company went out of business. Aeron chair. Anthro cart. Sun Ultra 10, loaded. $4,000 Toshiba laptop. Occaisonaly some Cisco kit or a fairly beefy server. "This used t…

My brother-in-law is an accountant who specialises in insolvency. He doesn't touch tech company failures, because there are usually no assets they can sell to pay creditors. Believe it or not computers are actually very hard to sell unless you outsource it to one of the big auction places. I've picked up a number of computers from them for nothing, because it's all rotting in their office basement, jobs wrapped up, "…

Wouldn't mind an Aeron chair though! Definitely pick one of those up for yourself in a sell-off ;)

Re: Loyalty and Layoffs

#15
My opinion:

You don't have to be loyal. Instead, be professional.

That means you retain many of the qualities of loyalty -- dilligence and an eye for the advantage of your client or employer -- without being afraid to ask for the going rate for your services.

A professional is also prepared to argue for the best interests of the client and to refuse to act unethically, even when the client doesn't want to hear it. Our cousin professions enjoy pretty strong legal support for the latter.

Re: Loyalty and Layoffs

#16

Great point, if not a little acrimonious, about the role of a CEO in a corporation. Even though the CEO (or anyone over your head for that matter) may enjoy you as a person, or even find you to be the perfect guy for the job, the bottom line still means a lot more than your life. I think it's important to remember that it's okay to love your job and the company you work for, as well as be loyal to them, but that loya…

I hope that if I'm ever a CEO, I'll have the decency to point out that while I am friendly, I am not a friend.

Re: Loyalty and Layoffs

#17

My opinion: You don't have to be loyal. Instead, be professional. That means you retain many of the qualities of loyalty -- dilligence and an eye for the advantage of your client or employer -- without being afraid to ask for the going rate for your services. A professional is also prepared to argue for the best interests of the client and to refuse to act unethically, even when the client doesn't want to hear it. Ou…

And if your loyalty to yourself and your professional ethics are in conflict with the wishes of your employer, it is far better to follow your true loyalties.

Though it might come at great personal cost if you end up having to flee to Russia.

Re: Loyalty and Layoffs

#18
Sensible applications of loyalty are a two way street - are they paying you fairly, are they developing you as a person? If they're not investing in you, being loyal to them is just stupidity. Match your commitments, that way if they stop you're not left going - "But I gave you everything and now I've got nothing!"

Your allies and your friends don't weaken you or leave you to rot. Anyone who does isn't worthy of your loyalty.

I've been laid off before, I didn't feel bad about it - I was loyal to them and they were loyal to me, and when the relationship ended we went our separate ways, both the richer for it.

Re: Loyalty and Layoffs

#19

I'm working at a big company where most employees have worked for a very long time. On my team, besides me, the person who has worked the shortest time is 9 years. The next one after that: 15 years. Most managers and senior engineers have worked here for 20 years or more. They've constructed their whole life around this job, it's almost sad. If in their 20 years have switched jobs, it was within the company. I'm not…

As an employer and owner, I don't have a problem with people moving around in their career. I expect it. I stay on great terms with them, give them flowers when they move on, wish them good luck, and invite them to stop by socially later.

Most people stay for several years or sometimes much more. Staying less than two years, and certainly less than a year, can be so short as to be counterproductive, so that's less welcome, though we always do self-introspection to see if we did something to drive them away (it's rare that someone stays that short a time). But if someone's been there three years or more, they've contributed a lot to the company, and I really do want them to do well, and they have no obligation to be "loyal" to the company.

Sometimes they work for a while elsewhere and then come back. That's great too.

Re: Loyalty and Layoffs

#20
I feel it's important to remember that in the employee-employer relationship, you're peers. You both need to provide the other with value, and you both need to be frank about your relationship when these values are lop-sided. And you need to be clear about what the value of the things being offered are. Your employer is not your family, your mom, or your significant other. It's a peer with which you trade value. Every person who works is a single-person business selling their particular expertise and time.

I feel like maintaining this attitude can help with all sorts of stuff, including dealing with job offers, negotiating pay, etc. And key to this is having a fairly good knowledge of the value that you provide so you know what value you deserve in return. (Being acutely aware of the value you provide can also help steer you towards higher-value skill sets.)

Intangibles are great. But don't live in fantasy land. And be aware that no one's obligated to give you anything unless it's written in a contract.

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