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The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

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Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#11

Post by antr »

joejohnson wrote: post #3

From the quoted LA Times piece: "Unlike in previous booms, the tech industry isn’t creating as many middle-class jobs..." I don't believe this. There are tons of Software Engineer jobs paying around 80-100k in SF. That salary, in that city, puts you firmly in the middle class. However, I agree with this piece. The tech companies and the people of San Francisco as a whole need to really change things. A big part of th…

You make a great point, but would you agree with the following?:

There are tons of Finance jobs paying around 80-100k in NY. That salary, in that city, puts you firmly in the middle class.

Is this now (perceived as) middle class?

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#14

Post by stfsbrb »

Articles like this one always seem to imply that the techies are all sitting comfortably with a giant money vault like Scrooge McDuck, laughing at everyone else and refusing to share. That just isn't the case. In reality, few of them actually have any real financial security. Most work for startups that are living on borrowed time and may not be here in a year or two. Few of them own any real assets such as real estate, so they end up renting just like everyone else. How many who ride these buses even own cars?

They all know in the back of their minds that the current boom is just as transient as any other, meaning they could be unemployed and forced to leave at any time. It is difficult to build a strong community on such shaky ground.

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#15

Post by ChuckMcM »

vinceguidry wrote: post #6
SurfScore wrote: post #4

I've lived all over the country, and I've never seen such a big divide between two groups (wealthy tech and everyone else) as I have in the Bay Area. The last time I was there, I realized why most of the protests for economic reform and "the 1%" are so strong in the Bay Area: because it is so blatantly thrown in people's faces! The streets are filled with Porsches and Teslas driving by the many homeless people in SF…

> The streets are filled with Porsches and Teslas driving by the many homeless people in SF everyday. One might argue that the homeless people wouldn't be there if the fabulous wealth weren't also there. That they can even be there should be a testament to the city's tolerance. In many places, local government does everything they can to remove them. SF has much more social conscience than a lot of people give it cre…

Actually, having talked with a number of homeless folks and done outreach with our Church, a significant portion stay for the weather. Seriously, it just doesn't get too hot or too cold when you're living outside here so you're pretty much ok even if you have to just sleep in your clothes one night. I talked to a guy who had walked here from Utah spending time across the northern Nevada and some in Central California.

That said, many of the homeless we dealt with were also dealing with challenges in mental illness, whether it was depression, schizophrenia, or addiction. That was much more instrumental in keeping them homeless than any sort of structured neglect.

If the tech giants endowed a single mental health facility that would serve the homeless population of San Francisco and one in the South Bay it would do more good for more people than any other single act. Suggestions on how we could pull that off are welcome.

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#16

Post by dalke »

antr wrote: post #11
joejohnson wrote: post #3

From the quoted LA Times piece: "Unlike in previous booms, the tech industry isn’t creating as many middle-class jobs..." I don't believe this. There are tons of Software Engineer jobs paying around 80-100k in SF. That salary, in that city, puts you firmly in the middle class. However, I agree with this piece. The tech companies and the people of San Francisco as a whole need to really change things. A big part of th…

You make a great point, but would you agree with the following?: There are tons of Finance jobs paying around 80-100k in NY. That salary, in that city, puts you firmly in the middle class. Is this now (perceived as) middle class?

"Is this now (perceived as) middle class?"

Umm, yes? It's the upper middle class, or the professional class if you prefer a different way of categorizing members of the middle class.

Now, there are many alternative models of the US class system, some of which would say that a finance job is in the working class - a well-paid worker, but still working class. However, it seems your complaint was based on the salary, not the type of job.

I need a little help to understand your statement. Do you consider a "finance job paying around 80-100k in NY" to be working class? Blue collar? Upper class? Capitalist class? Blue bloods?

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#17

Post by jcnnghm »

antr wrote: post #11
joejohnson wrote: post #3

From the quoted LA Times piece: "Unlike in previous booms, the tech industry isn’t creating as many middle-class jobs..." I don't believe this. There are tons of Software Engineer jobs paying around 80-100k in SF. That salary, in that city, puts you firmly in the middle class. However, I agree with this piece. The tech companies and the people of San Francisco as a whole need to really change things. A big part of th…

You make a great point, but would you agree with the following?: There are tons of Finance jobs paying around 80-100k in NY. That salary, in that city, puts you firmly in the middle class. Is this now (perceived as) middle class?

I'd agree with that, with the qualification that $80-100k may actually be a bit low. In the United States overall, the upper quintile of income starts at about $102k [1], so an income between $80 and $100k would place you in the upper-middle class.

However, it's important to keep in mind that the cost of living in San Francisco or New York is much higher than average. Median rent for a one-bedroom apartment is $2,795 [2] in San Francisco, that alone is over $33k a year. The SF cost of living index is 161.3 and the Manhattan cost of living index is 223.9. In other words, $100k in Manhattan is equivalent to about $45k in an average place in the US, firmly in the middle quintile. The Living Wage Project suggests it takes at least $100k to be effectively middle class in New York [3].

It's really not a perception thing, it's reality.

1: US Census 2011 Household Income Table HINC-05

2: http://priceonomics.com/the-san-francisco-rent-explosion/

3: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/27/cities-high-cost-of...

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#18

Post by seiji »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #15
vinceguidry wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The streets are filled with Porsches and Teslas driving by the many homeless people in SF everyday. One might argue that the homeless people wouldn't be there if the fabulous wealth weren't also there. That they can even be there should be a testament to the city's tolerance. In many places, local government does everything they can to remove them. SF has much more social conscience than a lot of people give it cre…

Actually, having talked with a number of homeless folks and done outreach with our Church, a significant portion stay for the weather. Seriously, it just doesn't get too hot or too cold when you're living outside here so you're pretty much ok even if you have to just sleep in your clothes one night. I talked to a guy who had walked here from Utah spending time across the northern Nevada and some in Central California…

Suggestions on how we could pull that off are welcome.

That's the problem, isn't it? Is such a thing even accomplishable?

We're teetering on an edge. We don't know if we are creating a future of clean and shiny and modern technology for everybody or if we're creating a dirty and scarred and run down begging-for-please-schedule-me-doctor services for non-millionares in society. More technological improvements are needed before we can uplift everybody into Comfort and Prosperity, but in the meantime, do we just let those who aren't us suffer?

There are probably half a dozen significant projects with 100x to 1000x personal, life-impacting ROI we could undertake as a society, but there's nobody strong enough to advance our agendas.

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#19

Post by jcnnghm »

gms wrote: post #13

Isn't this what taxes are for?

The cities problem isn't revenue, there are plenty of much better managed places that are nicer than San Francisco, without the massive tax base that the city enjoys. The people should be embarrassed at the state of the city. There are pretty clearly major systematic issues.

The city is trying to address a bunch of societal issues, while failing at the basics. There is a reason it's considered the worst run big city in the US [1]. Why should people that are already paying very high taxes pay even more, or address other peoples problems directly? I don't really see how this problem somehow belongs to the tech industry.

1: http://www.sfweekly.com/2009-12-16/news/the-worst-run-big-ci...

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#20

Post by benologist »

stfsbrb wrote: post #14

Articles like this one always seem to imply that the techies are all sitting comfortably with a giant money vault like Scrooge McDuck, laughing at everyone else and refusing to share. That just isn't the case. In reality, few of them actually have any real financial security. Most work for startups that are living on borrowed time and may not be here in a year or two. Few of them own any real assets such as real esta…

You forgot the bit where the tech giants are sitting on warchests with (tens of) $billions in actual giant money vaults like Scrooge McDuck, laughing at everyone else and refusing to share.
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