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Google blocks Windows Phone YouTube app again, for “manufactured” reasons

arstechnica.com

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Re: Google blocks Windows Phone YouTube app again, for “manufactured” reasons

#11

Post by kyrra »

shalmanese wrote: post #7
billnguyen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its not anticompetitive to not allow a third party to release your product on their platform without following your rules (reasonable or not). Hundreds of millions of dollars in engineering effort and bandwidth go into Youtube. In reality Google is completely within its rights to no do anything to support any platform it chooses not to. Why allow a platform and company to leech off that if they're not willing to. Mic…

Can't you use that exact same logic to argue that Comcast has spent billions of dollars laying cable into the ground and that it's completely reasonable for them to not allow content that doesn't fit within the goals of their "platform" like netflix traffic?

Comcast and many cable ISPs have a monopoly for high speed Internet in many parts if the US. YouTube is not forced on anyone due to where they live, and there are plenty of alternatives to YouTube out there that you are free to use.

Re: Google blocks Windows Phone YouTube app again, for “manufactured” reasons

#12

Post by cantankerous »

azakai wrote: post #8
adrianlmm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be OK is the rules weren't arbitrary, it is not OK to allow native API calls to some and to force to use HTML5 to others, it is inexcusable.

There are no "others" and no "rules". Google makes the iOS and Android apps, not third parties. The Windows Phone YouTube app would be the first significant (1) phone OS to have a YouTube app not made by Google, there are no others to compare Google's behavior on for fairness. This is the first event of its kind. (1) If you consider single digits market share to be significant.

The rules are arbitrary if Google doesn't abide by them when making publishing its own versions of YouTube apps on the dominant platforms. It's behavior is anti-competitive if it uses its position as gatekeeper to YouTube to stifle Windows Phone by placing requirements on Microsoft that it doesn't place on itself.

Re: Google blocks Windows Phone YouTube app again, for “manufactured” reasons

#13

Post by nknighthb »

shalmanese wrote: post #7
billnguyen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its not anticompetitive to not allow a third party to release your product on their platform without following your rules (reasonable or not). Hundreds of millions of dollars in engineering effort and bandwidth go into Youtube. In reality Google is completely within its rights to no do anything to support any platform it chooses not to. Why allow a platform and company to leech off that if they're not willing to. Mic…

Can't you use that exact same logic to argue that Comcast has spent billions of dollars laying cable into the ground and that it's completely reasonable for them to not allow content that doesn't fit within the goals of their "platform" like netflix traffic?

Is YouTube purporting to provide me with Internet access or otherwise operate as infrastructure? I must have missed that.

If Comcast wants to provide a digital network that provides connectivity between selected entities (such as end-users and companies that have elected to pay Comcast additional fees), that's fine. But they don't get to call it "Internet". They don't get to pass it off as something different from the AOL and CompuServe of old.

Re: Google blocks Windows Phone YouTube app again, for “manufactured” reasons

#14

Post by thrownaway2424 »

shalmanese wrote: post #7
billnguyen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its not anticompetitive to not allow a third party to release your product on their platform without following your rules (reasonable or not). Hundreds of millions of dollars in engineering effort and bandwidth go into Youtube. In reality Google is completely within its rights to no do anything to support any platform it chooses not to. Why allow a platform and company to leech off that if they're not willing to. Mic…

Can't you use that exact same logic to argue that Comcast has spent billions of dollars laying cable into the ground and that it's completely reasonable for them to not allow content that doesn't fit within the goals of their "platform" like netflix traffic?

That comparison seems weird because the relationships aren't the same. Comcast's customers are the people who pay for Comcast service at their homes and businesses. If Comcast favors its own content over other content, and they have a local monopoly on internet service, then they are using their monopoly to abuse their customers.

Neither Microsoft, nor owners of Windows Phone handsets, are customers of YouTube. The only people who are customers of YouTube are people who pay to have their videos hosted there.

Re: Google blocks Windows Phone YouTube app again, for “manufactured” reasons

#15

Post by nknighthb »

cantankerous wrote: post #12
azakai wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no "others" and no "rules". Google makes the iOS and Android apps, not third parties. The Windows Phone YouTube app would be the first significant (1) phone OS to have a YouTube app not made by Google, there are no others to compare Google's behavior on for fairness. This is the first event of its kind. (1) If you consider single digits market share to be significant.

The rules are arbitrary if Google doesn't abide by them when making publishing its own versions of YouTube apps on the dominant platforms. It's behavior is anti-competitive if it uses its position as gatekeeper to YouTube to stifle Windows Phone by placing requirements on Microsoft that it doesn't place on itself.

The rule exists to ensure the continued compatibility of third-party applications with requirements of the YouTube service. Google can fix its own apps, and it can fix the content of an iframe loaded from its servers, but it can't fix apps it doesn't control.

There are good reasons for this very simple rule that everyone but Microsoft seems able to comply with. By definition, such a rule cannot be "arbitrary".

Re: Google blocks Windows Phone YouTube app again, for “manufactured” reasons

#17

Post by 4thjuly »

teyc wrote: post #16

This is business. Microsoft would do exactly the same if the situation was reversed.

Exactly, Microsoft already does something similar by reserving some of their APIs for their own use. There are others that are available to some (eg the carriers) but nobody else.

It's nothing new, they have had so-called 'private' APIs since the early days of Windows.

Re: Google blocks Windows Phone YouTube app again, for “manufactured” reasons

#19

Post by Dylan16807 »

dkuntz2 wrote: post #4

I'm not sure if it's Ars' commentary, or just the commenters, but it seems entirely sided towards Microsoft. Ars didn't mention that Microsoft didn't want to play by the rather simple rules of "put the video in a web frame", and that Microsoft admits to re-releasing the application they previously pulled because it didn't follow the rules. Plus, it seems like the author of the post fails to understand what Google wan…

>Ars didn't mention that Microsoft didn't want to play by the rather simple rules of "put the video in a web frame", and that Microsoft admits to re-releasing the application they previously pulled because it didn't follow the rules.

What are you talking about? It says that in the article right here:

>First, the advertising giant is demanding specifically that Microsoft rewrite the application to use HTML5. Microsoft doesn't elaborate on why Google has made this demand but points out that Google's own apps on iOS and Android do not use HTML5. The software company claims that this is a "manufactured" reason, invented only to ensure that the YouTube experience on Windows Phone is inferior to that on iOS and Android.

I agree that using an iframe is going to suck compared to directly playing the video. Do you disagree?

It's a 'simple' demand sure, but it's pointless, inconsistent with other platforms, and lowers quality.

Edit: Ugh, why is your comment still at the top when it is factually incorrect? Am I weird for compulsively downvoting factually incorrect comments?

Re: Google blocks Windows Phone YouTube app again, for “manufactured” reasons

#20

Post by jeady »

dkuntz2 wrote: post #4

I'm not sure if it's Ars' commentary, or just the commenters, but it seems entirely sided towards Microsoft. Ars didn't mention that Microsoft didn't want to play by the rather simple rules of "put the video in a web frame", and that Microsoft admits to re-releasing the application they previously pulled because it didn't follow the rules. Plus, it seems like the author of the post fails to understand what Google wan…

It may be worth noting that the author, Peter Bright, is the Microsoft editor for Ars. He also happens to have a strong anti-google bias - I can't remember any pieces he's written that portrayed Google in a favorable light.
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