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Campaign for a new HTTP Error code: 451 - Blocked for legal reasons

451unavailable.org

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Re: Campaign for a new HTTP Error code: 451 - Blocked for legal reasons

#11

Post by chrisfarms »

Is this saying:

"As a web user I want our ISPs/governments to give us a nice error page so we understand what is going on when they DNS block or seize websites"

Or is it saying:

"As a web-master, when have to take down content due to legal proceedings I want a nice HTTP code to return"

They give example of the first (Virgin Media), but that takes down an entire domain, so it's kind of irrelevant if the correct HTTP code is returned, it's not like that is going to be resolved quickly. 503 would be the correct code here.

The second might be useful to spiders (who might want to back-off spidering so often for a while), but then wouldn't you just want to show your users a 404 with a nice reason why the content has gone.

Re: Campaign for a new HTTP Error code: 451 - Blocked for legal reasons

#12

Post by merlincorey »

I once worked somewhere where some resources could not be displayed to all clients. We chose to (ab)use HTTP 409 Conflict.

> 10.4.10 409 Conflict

> The request could not be completed due to a conflict with the current state of the resource. This code is only allowed in situations where it is expected that the user might be able to resolve the conflict and resubmit the request. The response body SHOULD include enough

> information for the user to recognize the source of the conflict. Ideally, the response entity would include enough information for the user or user agent to fix the problem; however, that might not be possible and is not required.

> Conflicts are most likely to occur in response to a PUT request. For example, if versioning were being used and the entity being PUT included changes to a resource which conflict with those made by an earlier (third-party) request, the server might use the 409 response to indicate that it can't complete the request. In this case, the response entity would likely contain a list of the differences between the two versions in a format defined by the response Content-Type.

Re: Campaign for a new HTTP Error code: 451 - Blocked for legal reasons

#13

Post by RyanMcGreal »

daveid wrote: post #5
javindo wrote: post #2

I can see some reasoning behind this, but the reasoning is that the emphasis of the problem is "people are angry at the site because something is blocked so let's show an error code reflecting the real reason." Using 451 would take the emphasis away from the site and onto the legal oppressor. On the other hand, why not inverse all inaccessible content to legal oppressors? Change the default meaning of 403 for example…

Change the default meaning of 403? I don't think that's a good idea. When a user needs to be logged in to do something and they aren't, you show them 403. When access is restricted to people outside a network, they see 403. It'll be hard to force a new behaviour onto the existing web, easier to add a new HTTP code.

My understanding is that the server should respond with 401 Unauthorized when someone is attempting to access a resource that requires authentication. What is the case for using 403 instead?

Re: Campaign for a new HTTP Error code: 451 - Blocked for legal reasons

#14

Post by diminish »

vilya wrote: post #6

Seems like a good idea, but the wrong way to achieve it. The right way, as I understand it, would be to write it up as an RFC and submit it to the IETF; and to contribute code for it to some of the popular web servers (apache, nginx, etc). The site doesn't make any mention of either of those things. Edit: oops, I was wrong. There is an RFC and it's linked from http://www.451unavailable.org/what-is-error-451/

Then to make things easier, some people need an http verb called patch_legal, to take down pages for dmca and other legal reasons.

Re: Campaign for a new HTTP Error code: 451 - Blocked for legal reasons

#16

Post by nwh »

chrisfarms wrote: post #11

Is this saying: "As a web user I want our ISPs/governments to give us a nice error page so we understand what is going on when they DNS block or seize websites" Or is it saying: "As a web-master, when have to take down content due to legal proceedings I want a nice HTTP code to return" They give example of the first (Virgin Media), but that takes down an entire domain, so it's kind of irrelevant if the correct HTTP c…

I understood it as the latter. Something that a webmaster can display to show a DMCA or geographical legal issue.

Re: Campaign for a new HTTP Error code: 451 - Blocked for legal reasons

#18

Post by txutxu »

nawitus wrote: post #7

Technically speaking 403 can be returned if it's blocked for legal reasons, but obviously it would be nice to know why it is forbidden.

There is some reasoning about this on: http://www.451unavailable.org/why-do-we-need-error-451

Still, imho, 4XX could be a response for a given URL, but when "a website is blocked" (from the text of the previous URL), we should go to 5XX, as in 503 - service unavailable.

Re: Campaign for a new HTTP Error code: 451 - Blocked for legal reasons

#19

Post by gpvos »

p_papageorgiou wrote: post #17

The whole point of this is wrong... The internet is free, content shouldn't be blocked for legal reasons

Yet it is, because the courts have a different opinion on this, and they decide what happens. So it's better to make it clear to the end user when it happens, so at least they are not kept in the dark, or are basically lied to, about the reason why they cannot see the document.

Re: Campaign for a new HTTP Error code: 451 - Blocked for legal reasons

#20

Post by nextw33k »

p_papageorgiou wrote: post #17

The whole point of this is wrong... The internet is free, content shouldn't be blocked for legal reasons

The whole point of this is right, its highlighting the government breaking the Internet.

Content shouldn't be blocked, the Internet should be free and open. However without letting people know what's happening they will not complain.

Of course what the browser should display is:

451: The Right Honourable Claire Perry MP has deemed that you shouldn't be able to look at this site.

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