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Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

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Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#11

Post by rustynails »

conductor wrote: post #7
oo7jeep wrote: post #2

TL,DR: "This experience has taught me one very important lesson: without congressional action or a strong judicial precedent, I would _strongly_ recommend against anyone trusting their private data to a company with physical ties to the United States."

If this is happening in the USA with its famous constitution, then well, I think the end of this statement can be easily converted just to _any_country_.

Many other countries follow suit. Almost certainly, Australia and the UK will see this as a precedent.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#12

Post by emiliobumachar »

conductor wrote: post #7
oo7jeep wrote: post #2

TL,DR: "This experience has taught me one very important lesson: without congressional action or a strong judicial precedent, I would _strongly_ recommend against anyone trusting their private data to a company with physical ties to the United States."

If this is happening in the USA with its famous constitution, then well, I think the end of this statement can be easily converted just to _any_country_.

The same can be happening in any country, but we know for a fact it is happening in the USA. Uncertainty is better than a certain, unfavourable outcome.

I'm keeping my US cloud services, but I have no illusions: they're being logged by the NSA.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#13

Post by unreal37 »

mpyne wrote: post #5

"Court records show that, in June, Lavabit complied with a routine search warrant targeting a child pornography suspect in a federal case in Maryland. That suggests that Levison isn’t a privacy absolutist. Whatever compelled him to shut down now must have been exceptional." Wow. Now I'm even more interested at what the NSL/court order was looking for here.

Their shutdown letter talks about the ordeal of the "last 6 weeks", so it definitely has to do with the US Govt trying to force them to change their system to allow them access to emails because of Snowden. The way Microsoft put a back door into the new Outlook.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#14

Post by dictum »

conductor wrote: post #7
oo7jeep wrote: post #2

TL,DR: "This experience has taught me one very important lesson: without congressional action or a strong judicial precedent, I would _strongly_ recommend against anyone trusting their private data to a company with physical ties to the United States."

If this is happening in the USA with its famous constitution, then well, I think the end of this statement can be easily converted just to _any_country_.

A country cannot be on the United States' good side without bending to its will. Also, the governments of other countries would love to have a peek on whatever intel the NSA has regarding their enemies.

So, if the US wants your data, they have great diplomatic resources to compel a country to hand it (read: CIA). I'm speculating as I don't know if there is a precedent of the US requesting data from another country using secret warrants, but as long as they have a warrant and the country does not have an overtly adversarial relationship with the US, it's a target.

Based on their tradition of bank secrecy, Switzerland may be an exception, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#15

Post by conductor »

If you are looking for an alternative to Lavabit, try RiseUp [1].

There is a nice read in their "About Us" page [2]

[1] - https://riseup.net/en

[2] - https://help.riseup.net/en/about-us

Added:

Though, it is based in Seattle, so what happened to Lavabit can happen to them too, unfortuneately.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#16

Post by RyanMcGreal »

conductor wrote: post #7
oo7jeep wrote: post #2

TL,DR: "This experience has taught me one very important lesson: without congressional action or a strong judicial precedent, I would _strongly_ recommend against anyone trusting their private data to a company with physical ties to the United States."

If this is happening in the USA with its famous constitution, then well, I think the end of this statement can be easily converted just to _any_country_.

What makes the American Constitution exceptional is not its content but the fact that it was written in the late 18th century. In the intervening two centuries, several other industrialized liberal democracies have adopted constitutions that are broader and more inclusive than the Bill of Rights.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#17

Post by ChuckMcM »

So for those of you wondering about Jury nullification, the way it would work in this case is that Levison would reveal that the NSA was hounding him with NSL letters, they would charge him with violating the terms of the NSL and the jury would acquit him anyway.

I hope we can get a case like that to move that aspect of the conversation forward. It helped get bad laws off the books in the civil rights cases and it would help here.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#20

Post by oleganza »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #17

So for those of you wondering about Jury nullification, the way it would work in this case is that Levison would reveal that the NSA was hounding him with NSL letters, they would charge him with violating the terms of the NSL and the jury would acquit him anyway. I hope we can get a case like that to move that aspect of the conversation forward. It helped get bad laws off the books in the civil rights cases and it wo…

Who would risk their own life to do that for "the good of many"? People like Snowden are exceptions, not a rule, because the guns are out there pointed to everyone. Why don't we instead of asking individual heroes to fight a killing machine called "the state", do that:

1. Acknowledge the evil of the state. 2. Find practical non-violent ways to boycott it. E.g. blacklist personally everyone involved in violent aggression. Switch off USD to Bitcoin. Expose violence of the state consistently in every relevant circumstance etc.

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