NSA Collects 'Word for Word' Every Domestic Communication, Says Former Analyst • Hacker News Board

Re: NSA Collects 'Word for Word' Every Domestic Communication, Says Former Analyst

#11

Post by martindale » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 4:50 AM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #9

martindale wrote: post #3

The "former analyst" in question is Russell Tice, who was terminated by the NSA in 2005 after "publicly urging Congress to pass stronger protections for federal intelligence agency whistleblowers facing retaliation" [1]. There's an interesting exchange from then-director of NSA special access programs Renee Seymour to Tice warning him against testifying on the NSA programs [2] about a half year later. [1]: http://en.…

That letter seems eminently reasonable to me.

I agree. It's interesting from a historical context.

Re: NSA Collects 'Word for Word' Every Domestic Communication, Says Former Analyst

#12

Post by ToothlessJake » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 4:50 AM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #2

No, says an unnamed NSA "colleague" of a former analyst. Say what you like about Snowden, but at least some of his claims have been backed up by evidence. What have these guys got? Why not name names?

Persistent targeting, one way or another, by drones managed by SAIC[1].

[1] http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/06/14/news-saic-wins-95-mil...

Re: NSA Collects 'Word for Word' Every Domestic Communication, Says Former Analyst

#13

Post by twoodfin » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 4:52 AM UTC

kennywinker wrote: post #5

twoodfin wrote: post #2

No, says an unnamed NSA "colleague" of a former analyst. Say what you like about Snowden, but at least some of his claims have been backed up by evidence. What have these guys got? Why not name names?

Because then they'll have to flee the country like that "traitor" Snowden? Not saying it wouldn't be the right thing to do, but I am saying it would definitely come at a cost to them and their friends.

Why? A colleague of Tice's told him a few weeks ago that every domestic communication is being recorded. Tice is now a private citizen, and he has every right to tell us that colleague's name.

But he won't, and I suspect that the reason is that his claim is fanciful.

Re: NSA Collects 'Word for Word' Every Domestic Communication, Says Former Analyst

#14

Post by ToothlessJake » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 4:52 AM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #2

No, says an unnamed NSA "colleague" of a former analyst. Say what you like about Snowden, but at least some of his claims have been backed up by evidence. What have these guys got? Why not name names?

Digitally stalked due to dissent by for-profit "Domain Awareness Centers" run by SAIC[1].

[1] http://oaklandwiki.org/Domain_Awareness_Center

Re: NSA Collects 'Word for Word' Every Domestic Communication, Says Former Analyst

#15

Post by MattyRad » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 4:57 AM UTC

>We have turned intelligence into a regulated industry in a way that none of our allies, even in Europe, have done. We have all three branches of government involved in overseeing the activities of the NSA...

That a whistleblower had to reveal the programs, that Congress was largely unaware that any such programs existed, and that NSA personnel are content with lying to Congress about the programs pretty well contradicts that claim. Still, glass half full, I suppose it's somewhat encouraging that PBS is reporting on this.

Re: NSA Collects 'Word for Word' Every Domestic Communication, Says Former Analyst

#16

Post by clicks » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 5:00 AM UTC

fixxer wrote: post #8

Nice to see somebody pointing out the obvious bullshit regarding the Utah facility's real purpose (content storage, not metadata). What kind of iron do you need to run NLP on a day's worth of content (let's limit "content" to voice transcriptions from phone calls)? Suppose I want to pick out "bomb" in near real-time? How many $billions for total information awareness? Even the best algo is going to produce false posi…

I'm curious about the storage media they might have... is it just plain old rotational harddrives? Who made them -- Seagate? Western Digital? It's curious that no word has come out from that front -- "wow, this customer is requesting a _LOT_ of storage devices... like, more storage space than what is available in the world".

And really, because of this I think the idea that they might have some in-house innovation is not so far-fetched. We started hearing a lot about inPhase Technologies and such about DVD-sized discs that could store upwards of 6 terabytes back almost 10 years ago, but it amounted mostly to vapourware. We do now have confirmed information from Seagate that they'll start shipping out laptop-sized 2.5" rotational drives that will be able to store around ~60 TB of data within the next 2-3 years. Perhaps NSA has been secretively working with them, if not just producing the devices for themselves?

Re: NSA Collects 'Word for Word' Every Domestic Communication, Says Former Analyst

#17

Post by sliverstorm » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 5:04 AM UTC

clicks wrote: post #16

fixxer wrote: post #8

Nice to see somebody pointing out the obvious bullshit regarding the Utah facility's real purpose (content storage, not metadata). What kind of iron do you need to run NLP on a day's worth of content (let's limit "content" to voice transcriptions from phone calls)? Suppose I want to pick out "bomb" in near real-time? How many $billions for total information awareness? Even the best algo is going to produce false posi…

I'm curious about the storage media they might have... is it just plain old rotational harddrives? Who made them -- Seagate? Western Digital? It's curious that no word has come out from that front -- "wow, this customer is requesting a _LOT_ of storage devices... like, more storage space than what is available in the world". And really, because of this I think the idea that they might have some in-house innovation is…

Forget statements from Seagate or WD. Just look at their bottom line.

Re: NSA Collects 'Word for Word' Every Domestic Communication, Says Former Analyst

#18

Post by kennywinker » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 5:06 AM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #13

kennywinker wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because then they'll have to flee the country like that "traitor" Snowden? Not saying it wouldn't be the right thing to do, but I am saying it would definitely come at a cost to them and their friends.

Why? A colleague of Tice's told him a few weeks ago that every domestic communication is being recorded. Tice is now a private citizen, and he has every right to tell us that colleague's name. But he won't, and I suspect that the reason is that his claim is fanciful.

That's definitely possible. But it's also possible he doesn't want to out his friend because he's a decent guy. You know we would all think this guy was a scumbag if he outed his friend/colleague at the NSA who would likely suffer for it.

Without hard evidence it's hard to believe him, you're right. But not naming his source doesn't effect his credibility negatively in my eyes. It's equally likely he's not naming his source because he's a nice person, as it is because there is no source.

Re: NSA Collects 'Word for Word' Every Domestic Communication, Says Former Analyst

#19

Post by llamataboot » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 5:14 AM UTC

clicks wrote: post #16

fixxer wrote: post #8

Nice to see somebody pointing out the obvious bullshit regarding the Utah facility's real purpose (content storage, not metadata). What kind of iron do you need to run NLP on a day's worth of content (let's limit "content" to voice transcriptions from phone calls)? Suppose I want to pick out "bomb" in near real-time? How many $billions for total information awareness? Even the best algo is going to produce false posi…

I'm curious about the storage media they might have... is it just plain old rotational harddrives? Who made them -- Seagate? Western Digital? It's curious that no word has come out from that front -- "wow, this customer is requesting a _LOT_ of storage devices... like, more storage space than what is available in the world". And really, because of this I think the idea that they might have some in-house innovation is…

The NSA has quite a bit of in-house hardware manufacturing capability, but I don't know if they use it to make storage media.

Re: NSA Collects 'Word for Word' Every Domestic Communication, Says Former Analyst

#20

Post by llamataboot » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 5:34 AM UTC

So it's now in the realm of maybe-to-probable that the NSA has every domestic phone call on tape as well as some non-trivial sized chunk of all emails sent? Plus for sure has all metadata they can get their hands on? Plus cable taps on most (all?) internet backbones?