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MailChimp threatens legal action against an open source side project

imluke.me

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Re: MailChimp threatens legal action against an open source side project

#11

Post by darkstar999 »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #3

Regardless of who is in the right, their letter was more professional and polite than this OP response. The author is mistaken to think this is a pushy or aggressive letter, compared to an actual pushy or aggressive legal letter. PS: In the U.S. (if not the rest of the English speaking world?), if you want to use an honorific for a woman but don't know which she uses, always use "Ms.", never ever "Miss." "Miss" impli…

The fact that we have to worry about womens' marital status when addressing them is sad.

Re: MailChimp threatens legal action against an open source side project

#12

Post by jronald »

The response to MailChimp's letter is distasteful at best. I don't know how MailChimp found out about Luke's work, but I imagine having a Dev contact someone infringing on their work is not normal procedure for any company. Lawyers are paid to do this professionally, however Ms. Danin's letter goes above and beyond, illustrating the issues they have and their reasoning behind it. They could have had court documents (in the US anyways) show up at your door, or the site / files could have been forced offline by working with the host.

Your response reflects poorly on you. I would say it was fair to mention your employer as it's listed on your public github profile, and it isn't clear that your employer isn't aware. Additionally, I'd imagine you'll be receiving more removal requests from the other sites you replicate.

Also, releasing your files under the MIT license prohibits you from restricting them to "educational purposes", at least to my understanding, but I could be incorrect here.

Re: MailChimp threatens legal action against an open source side project

#13

Post by citricsquid » 

    Had someone from the MailChimp design or development team reached 
    out and asked me to take the resource down, I totally would have understood. 
    I greatly admire their work and respect their talents immensely.
It's like they teach this in asshole 101. You can tell someone is being unreasonable every time this argument arises, "I'm not upset about the bigger picture, I'm upset about meaningless-detail x!".

Re: MailChimp threatens legal action against an open source side project

#16

Post by lukechesser »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #3

Regardless of who is in the right, their letter was more professional and polite than this OP response. The author is mistaken to think this is a pushy or aggressive letter, compared to an actual pushy or aggressive legal letter. PS: In the U.S. (if not the rest of the English speaking world?), if you want to use an honorific for a woman but don't know which she uses, always use "Ms.", never ever "Miss." "Miss" impli…

Arguing on HN is probably a moot point, but I'll try anyways. Don't get me wrong, I'm aware they could have gone about this in a much more aggressive way. But to go through their lawyers right away was a much more aggressive response than what I would have expected from MailChimp. I guess that's the totally correct legal response, but why not just send me a quick message?

Re: MailChimp threatens legal action against an open source side project

#17

Post by jronald »

darkstar999 wrote: post #11
jrochkind1 wrote: post #3

Regardless of who is in the right, their letter was more professional and polite than this OP response. The author is mistaken to think this is a pushy or aggressive letter, compared to an actual pushy or aggressive legal letter. PS: In the U.S. (if not the rest of the English speaking world?), if you want to use an honorific for a woman but don't know which she uses, always use "Ms.", never ever "Miss." "Miss" impli…

The fact that we have to worry about womens' marital status when addressing them is sad.

I'm off topic here, but I think this is more an artifact than common place anymore, right? While Mrs and Miss still exist, I've never seen them anywhere aside from formal invitations. (except my third grade teacher who required 'Mrs.', but that was almost 20 years ago)

Re: MailChimp threatens legal action against an open source side project

#18

Post by nwh »

lukechesser wrote: post #16
jrochkind1 wrote: post #3

Regardless of who is in the right, their letter was more professional and polite than this OP response. The author is mistaken to think this is a pushy or aggressive letter, compared to an actual pushy or aggressive legal letter. PS: In the U.S. (if not the rest of the English speaking world?), if you want to use an honorific for a woman but don't know which she uses, always use "Ms.", never ever "Miss." "Miss" impli…

Arguing on HN is probably a moot point, but I'll try anyways. Don't get me wrong, I'm aware they could have gone about this in a much more aggressive way. But to go through their lawyers right away was a much more aggressive response than what I would have expected from MailChimp. I guess that's the totally correct legal response, but why not just send me a quick message?

The letter you got is a friendly request ("quick message"), not a legal demand. Why does it matter who it came from?

Re: MailChimp threatens legal action against an open source side project

#19

Post by rhizome »

citricsquid wrote: post #13

Had someone from the MailChimp design or development team reached out and asked me to take the resource down, I totally would have understood. I greatly admire their work and respect their talents immensely. It's like they teach this in asshole 101. You can tell someone is being unreasonable every time this argument arises, "I'm not upset about the bigger picture, I'm upset about meaningless-detail x!".

It's a tone argument, which is toward the bottom of PG's hierarchy of disagreement, not to mention many other places (e.g. random google hit http://lucereta.wordpress.com/2011/06/30/tone-argument-as-lo...).

Re: MailChimp threatens legal action against an open source side project

#20

Post by tonywebster »

I've seen much more aggressive emails and letters, although I think this could have been better-resolved with a phone call to attempt clear up the immediate issues (e.g. proper attribution, terms and conditions) before even bringing up the word 'legal.'

MailChimp's concerns are quite valid, and to an extent you have to enforce IP issues, but OP is right that this happens all over the internet. If you lookup 'Dropbox' on Dribbble, you'll see tons of reproductions and remixes of their UI. I see OP's PSD as something made out of respect, and something provided to the community as an educational resource.

That doesn't change MailChimp's legal rights -- but regardless of who is right and wrong, I think a lot can be accomplished among adults having collaborative conversations. I think MailChimp is asking "How can we protect our IP?" instead of "How can we protect our IP while continuing to engage the designer and developer community?"

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