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SML#: a new Standard ML family programming language

pllab.riec.tohoku.ac.jp

11–20 of 27 posts

Re: SML#: a new Standard ML family programming language

#11
post #4
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean CLR?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Language_Infrastructure

TL;DR: the CLI is the specification, of which the CLR is Microsoft's own implementation. Another/the other implementation of the CLI is Mono.

Which begs the question: you've written "Microsoft's CLI", which does make sense because they were the ones who've come up with it, but can't that be interpreted as a synonym for CLR? Maybe that's what 616c meant.

Re: SML#: a new Standard ML family programming language

#12
post #10
post #8

sorry to ask, but who uses SML nowadays and for what do they use it? (I know about it's descendants or languages influenced/inspired by it, like OCaml, F# and the less related Haskell, but nothing hits the news about SML projects.)

Although SML is such a beautiful and pragmatic language and has many Compilers and Runtimes, I am not aware of any real world projects with impact other than the well-known SML compilers (Mlton, SMLNJ, MosML, Poly ... to only name a few). Usage of SML results in very short, readable and efficient programs, so I wonder why there is only so little industry adoption.

Most of the people who would be using SML are using Haskell, hence why Robert Harper is so bitter, constantly writing blog posts about how much "Haskell sucks", and how "unsafe" it is.

edit: or OCaml, or F#.

Re: SML#: a new Standard ML family programming language

#13
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although SML is such a beautiful and pragmatic language and has many Compilers and Runtimes, I am not aware of any real world projects with impact other than the well-known SML compilers (Mlton, SMLNJ, MosML, Poly ... to only name a few). Usage of SML results in very short, readable and efficient programs, so I wonder why there is only so little industry adoption.

Most of the people who would be using SML are using Haskell, hence why Robert Harper is so bitter, constantly writing blog posts about how much "Haskell sucks", and how "unsafe" it is. edit: or OCaml, or F#.

I'm not sure it is right to speak of "most people". Many people use OCaml these days. For instance, I have the impression that in work on program verification and static analysis OCaml is more popular than Haskell. Coq is written in OCaml, for example. The Haskell community much more vocal though.

Harper has strong opinions, but he has a few points. Haskell may be great, but one should be aware that it is not an improvement on SML in each and every respect. For example, SML has a much better module system than Haskell.

Re: SML#: a new Standard ML family programming language

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the people who would be using SML are using Haskell, hence why Robert Harper is so bitter, constantly writing blog posts about how much "Haskell sucks", and how "unsafe" it is. edit: or OCaml, or F#.

I'm not sure it is right to speak of "most people". Many people use OCaml these days. For instance, I have the impression that in work on program verification and static analysis OCaml is more popular than Haskell. Coq is written in OCaml, for example. The Haskell community much more vocal though. Harper has strong opinions, but he has a few points. Haskell may be great, but one should be aware that it is not an impr…

F# might already be more popular than both, but it's hard to tell for sure.

Re: SML#: a new Standard ML family programming language

#15

"Functional record update" [1] was the one missing feature that bothered me most about Standard ML. If you want to change one element in a record, you've got to specify explicitly that every other element in the record didn't change. [1] http://www.pllab.riec.tohoku.ac.jp/smlsharp/docs/1.0/en/Ch4....

You can also update one field in OCaml, I really like this language.

Re: SML#: a new Standard ML family programming language

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it is right to speak of "most people". Many people use OCaml these days. For instance, I have the impression that in work on program verification and static analysis OCaml is more popular than Haskell. Coq is written in OCaml, for example. The Haskell community much more vocal though. Harper has strong opinions, but he has a few points. Haskell may be great, but one should be aware that it is not an impr…

F# might already be more popular than both, but it's hard to tell for sure.

Yes, that's my point. We shouldn't say that most people use X because it doesn't seem clear cut at this point.

Re: SML#: a new Standard ML family programming language

#17
post #7

SML# is one of the lesser known SML implementations, although it's a quite good one. The only thing that I found impractical,... you can only link 32bit libs, which is very odd on todays 64bit Systems. Nevertheless, the thing I like most at SML# is the excellent FFI. You can just pass SML-records or SML-functions to C. SML# is very powerful if you code your applications in SML and C.

The recently released ocaml-ctypes https://github.com/ocamllabs/ocaml-ctypes > library by Jeremy Yallop does something similar. It uses GADTs to represent the C type system in OCaml's type system with as-you-would-expect OCaml signatures. For example, you can pass an OCaml comparator to a C sort function that takes a function pointer and it works.

It's not quite as smooth, as far as I know, but it will soon include C header consumption and C stub generation to both improve binding accuracy/safety and remove dynamic paths for performance.

Re: SML#: a new Standard ML family programming language

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the people who would be using SML are using Haskell, hence why Robert Harper is so bitter, constantly writing blog posts about how much "Haskell sucks", and how "unsafe" it is. edit: or OCaml, or F#.

I'm not sure it is right to speak of "most people". Many people use OCaml these days. For instance, I have the impression that in work on program verification and static analysis OCaml is more popular than Haskell. Coq is written in OCaml, for example. The Haskell community much more vocal though. Harper has strong opinions, but he has a few points. Haskell may be great, but one should be aware that it is not an impr…

Haskellers complain about Haskell's module system and say that SML's is better more often than any MLer, I think.

Re: SML#: a new Standard ML family programming language

#19
post #4
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean CLR?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Language_Infrastructure

Sorry, my bad. I had no idea about CLI, and the CLI-CLR distinction, or I would not have put foot in mouth. Thanks for the link and not a snarky comment.

Re: SML#: a new Standard ML family programming language

#20
post #8

sorry to ask, but who uses SML nowadays and for what do they use it? (I know about it's descendants or languages influenced/inspired by it, like OCaml, F# and the less related Haskell, but nothing hits the news about SML projects.)

I often use SML for writing games. The Functioning library (http://github.com/robsimmons/functioning) provides support for SDL and includes an SML port of Box2D.
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