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Verbal abuse on LKML

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Re: Verbal abuse on LKML

#11

Post by RyanZAG »

aclevernickname wrote: post #5

So, can anyone tell me what Sarah Sharp has contributed to the kernel?

  What role do you play in the community and/or what
  subsystem(s) do you work on?
I'm the Linux kernel xHCI driver maintainer. I own Linux USB 3.0 support, and I send my patches up to Greg Kroah-Hartman, who is the USB subsystem maintainer.

  Where do you get your paycheck?
I work in Intel's Open Source Technology Center, along with a bunch of other cool Linux kernel developers.

-- Sourced from https://www.linux.com/news/special-feature/linux-developers/...

Re: Verbal abuse on LKML

#14

Post by DannyBee »

ddalex_ro wrote: post #4

Wtf, now we fight the way Linus is dictating things around ? Next, we'll be down to having respect for colleagues and maintain civility in all cases.

In some ways, Linus is not wrong. Fake civility and fake respect do not usually help anyone.

This does not mean you run around screaming at people, usually, that gets you fired.

However, these folks have formed their own community, and set the rules of conduct for it. If she wants to try to change those, great. But this should be a discussion for members of that community, not one of trying to get the world writ large to come down on them. (At least from where I sit, she is trying to do the latter, rather than the former. Maybe i'm misreading it though)

Essentially, she wants the community to change not because the community wants to, but because everyone else outside the community wants them to.

This seems, without thinking very hard, quite wrong.

She always retains the option of starting her own community, etc.

Note that even the law recognizes the issues here in the US. Generally, small non-governmental groups can't be forced to open up membership or to avoid discrimination. So the local old boys club generally can't be forced to accept women, for example.

Re: Verbal abuse on LKML

#15

Post by icebraining »

beachstartup wrote: post #6

this issue comes up every couple of years - these guys write linux, you can't make them do anything. they are untouchable and will do/say whatever the hell they want. linus especially - is a grown ass man and does this in person too, as is his prerogative. anyone see his github speech? he stands up in front of 300 people and calls them all idiots.

Sarah Sharp is part of the people who "write linux" - she's the xHCI driver maintainer at Intel.

Re: Verbal abuse on LKML

#16

Post by alemhnan »

jabiko wrote: post #3
psibi wrote: post #2

Complete discussion here: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.stable/58049/focu...

Start of the verbal abuse discussion: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.stable/58049/focu...

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.stable/58049/focu...

'Come to the dark side, Sarah. We have cookies.' -- Linus

Re: Verbal abuse on LKML

#17

Post by kingkilr »

davidw wrote: post #10

I like Rusty Russell's point of view: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1525480 " You have to be harsh with code: People mistake politeness for uncertainty. Whenever I said 'I prefer if you XYZ' some proportion didn't realize I meant 'Don't argue unless you have new facts: do XYZ or go away.' This wastes my time, so I started being explicit. But be gentle with people. You've already called their baby ugly."

This is a false dichotomy. I do a lot of code review, both in my day job and for many open source projects. I've never had to verbally abuse someone to explain the changes I wanted to see in a patch.

(OSS projects I've done code review on include: Django, PyPy, Topaz, CPython, Twisted, and OpenStack)

Re: Verbal abuse on LKML

#19

Post by icebraining »

DannyBee wrote: post #14
ddalex_ro wrote: post #4

Wtf, now we fight the way Linus is dictating things around ? Next, we'll be down to having respect for colleagues and maintain civility in all cases.

In some ways, Linus is not wrong. Fake civility and fake respect do not usually help anyone. This does not mean you run around screaming at people, usually, that gets you fired. However, these folks have formed their own community, and set the rules of conduct for it. If she wants to try to change those, great. But this should be a discussion for members of that community, not one of trying to get the world writ larg…

Not sure why would you comment on discrimination law; I'm sure Linus is very egalitarian in his yelling ;)

Re: Verbal abuse on LKML

#20

Post by beachstartup »

icebraining wrote: post #15
beachstartup wrote: post #6

this issue comes up every couple of years - these guys write linux, you can't make them do anything. they are untouchable and will do/say whatever the hell they want. linus especially - is a grown ass man and does this in person too, as is his prerogative. anyone see his github speech? he stands up in front of 300 people and calls them all idiots.

Sarah Sharp is part of the people who "write linux" - she's the xHCI driver maintainer at Intel.

if alan cox couldn't get linus to change, how the hell does she think she will?

i honestly don't get it.

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