Link between quantum physics and game theory found • Hacker News Board

Re: Link between quantum physics and game theory found

#11

Post by gaze » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 7:02 PM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #5

floobynewb wrote: post #4

Deep link? The two fields both contain the notion of locality, big woop. The application of quantum nonlocal correlations to game theory is interesting, but this is not what is advertised in the article. I am displeased.

It looks like the "link" is "quantum-entangled systems can transfer information useful to game players"

I was hoping for some sort of nice link between the fields... like doing quantum mechanics with game theory or something like that. This appears to be playing a game with a quantum channel. Cool, but not that cool.

Re: Link between quantum physics and game theory found

#12

Post by lkozma » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 7:05 PM UTC

aneth4 wrote: post #6

I'm very interested in any theoretical connections between interactions of conscious beings and quantum physics. I've read a number of physicists discounting any such possibility, but it's clear to me nobody understands these things well enough to know. Personally I think consciousness, perception, and free will are a great unknown, and likely involve the makeup of the cosmos including quantum interactions. If anyone…

Roger Penrose has famously speculated on the connection between quantum physics and consciousness in his book "The emperor's new mind" and follow-ups, but as far as I know, the idea is not very highly regarded in the scientific community and the book is not very convincing either (IMHO).

Re: Link between quantum physics and game theory found

#13

Post by nawitus » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 7:10 PM UTC

>Next, by bringing quantum mechanics into the game, the researchers showed that players who can use quantum resources, such as entangled quantum particles, can outperform classical players. That is, quantum players achieve better performance than any classical player ever could.

Classical players can build a classical computer which simulates quantum computers. Of course, I really should read the paper instead of zero-content press releases..

Re: Link between quantum physics and game theory found

#14

Post by atondwal » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 7:13 PM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #5

floobynewb wrote: post #4

Deep link? The two fields both contain the notion of locality, big woop. The application of quantum nonlocal correlations to game theory is interesting, but this is not what is advertised in the article. I am displeased.

It looks like the "link" is "quantum-entangled systems can transfer information useful to game players"

No, it's that Bayesian players can take advantage of corellated quantum oracles in ways that give them acess to new equilibria in a way that preserves some of the old equilibria, such that the max of the new set of equilibria is always equal to or greater than the max of the old set. Which is rather non-obvious.

In addition, your statements "quantum-entangled systems can transfer information useful to game players" is wrong, or at least misleading. Entangled particles can't communicate information any better than classical methods. (Well, unless you're concerned about privacy, but that's a whole other issue which doesn't effect the game...)

Re: Link between quantum physics and game theory found

#15

Post by MrBra » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 7:19 PM UTC

I read the article but all I got is that somehow the reasearchers brought quantum theory principles into game theory. I don't think that's enough explaining, even for a layman...

Re: Link between quantum physics and game theory found

#16

Post by seiji » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 7:23 PM UTC

aneth4 wrote: post #6

I'm very interested in any theoretical connections between interactions of conscious beings and quantum physics. I've read a number of physicists discounting any such possibility, but it's clear to me nobody understands these things well enough to know. Personally I think consciousness, perception, and free will are a great unknown, and likely involve the makeup of the cosmos including quantum interactions. If anyone…

Personally I think consciousness, perception, and free will are a great unknown, and likely involve the makeup of the cosmos including quantum interactions.

They are not great unknowns. They are kinda dull knowns and they get more known-er by the year. Nothing in the brain (or the "cosmos") requires quantum juju for our conscious experience.

There's lots written about perception: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_detection_(nervous_syst... (and all of Hinton's biologically-inspired artificial neural network work)

And consciousness: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Metzinger

And free will: http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/programming_the_moist_robot/ and http://dilbert.com/fast/2012-03-18/

All you are is a three pound analog ASIC in your skull. If it gets squished, infiltrated, inflamed, or explodes, you cease to exist completely (save, any memories other people have of your behaviors or any output you left behind recording your brain state under various priors).

Re: Link between quantum physics and game theory found

#17

Post by darkmighty » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 7:26 PM UTC

nawitus wrote: post #13

>Next, by bringing quantum mechanics into the game, the researchers showed that players who can use quantum resources, such as entangled quantum particles, can outperform classical players. That is, quantum players achieve better performance than any classical player ever could. Classical players can build a classical computer which simulates quantum computers. Of course, I really should read the paper instead of zer…

I think it's not in a computing context, but in a nonlocality context. Although I can't picture a way of using nonlocality in a useful manner without violating relativity (i.e. if their performance improves due to "instantaneous" interactions, their performance increase could be measured allowing superluminal transmission of information).

Re: Link between quantum physics and game theory found

#18

Post by sublimeloge » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 7:30 PM UTC

aneth4 wrote: post #6

I'm very interested in any theoretical connections between interactions of conscious beings and quantum physics. I've read a number of physicists discounting any such possibility, but it's clear to me nobody understands these things well enough to know. Personally I think consciousness, perception, and free will are a great unknown, and likely involve the makeup of the cosmos including quantum interactions. If anyone…

I don't know of any science in this area yet, because everything I'm aware of is far too speculative to be called "science". That said there is some science-aware philosophy in this area, more notably "The Emperor's New Mind" and "Shadows of the Mind" by Roger Penrose (also mentioned by lkozma below).

Scott Aaronson also published a essay in this area recently which tackles the issue of relationships free will and quantum physics from a pretty neat angle. It's the first attempt I've seen in this area that I sort of like (not to say I agree or disagree with it, I just like it). It's available for free online: http://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/giqtm3.pdf

Re: Link between quantum physics and game theory found

#19

Post by ajkjk » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 7:32 PM UTC

aneth4 wrote: post #6

I'm very interested in any theoretical connections between interactions of conscious beings and quantum physics. I've read a number of physicists discounting any such possibility, but it's clear to me nobody understands these things well enough to know. Personally I think consciousness, perception, and free will are a great unknown, and likely involve the makeup of the cosmos including quantum interactions. If anyone…

Sure, we haven't figured out the brain so we don't know for sure -- but I've never seen anything that suggests there's more to it than complicated chemistry.

Re: Link between quantum physics and game theory found

#20

Post by floobynewb » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 7:48 PM UTC

aneth4 wrote: post #6

I'm very interested in any theoretical connections between interactions of conscious beings and quantum physics. I've read a number of physicists discounting any such possibility, but it's clear to me nobody understands these things well enough to know. Personally I think consciousness, perception, and free will are a great unknown, and likely involve the makeup of the cosmos including quantum interactions. If anyone…

I think many people have a hunch in this direction. But that may just be because we desire ourselves to be in some way special. I would be wary of anyone discounting it out of hand. What you are really asking is how does the brain work? If you really want to think sensibly about this you are going to need to:

1) be prepared to spend decades thinking about it. 2) become really, really good at maths. 3) get really, really good at physics. 4) get really, really good at computational neuroscience

and if you actually want an answer, you have two options:

1) wait for a genius to work it out 2) become the genius who works it out

Hacker news is not going to be able to help you on this one!