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Leading Australian Telco storing data on behalf of US government

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Re: Leading Australian Telco storing data on behalf of US government

#11

Post by mtgx »

tnuc wrote: post #8
acqq wrote: post #3

One commenter there wrote and I'd like to read some reasonable answer to that: This is old news, obviously no one watched 4 Corners years ago – I think 15 – 20 yrs ago. I think it was about a program called Echelon. Remember the time a New Zealander broke into one of those unmanned “Pine Gap” sites (in NZ) and found mainframe computers downloading telecommunications data. Did we care then?

Nobody cared then and nobody cares now, except for a few IT geeks. In a 15 - 20 years from now the whole lot will have been mostly forgotten and accepted as normal. There and more important things in the politics such as gay marriage and immigration. Try watching CNN or Fox News and ignoring technical sites. The politicians want votes, they couldn't give a shit about your privacy. Australia and the US have been keepi…

Is there any reason why privacy couldn't become an issue as big as gay marriage?

I don't think so. People just have to want it as badly and fight for it.

Re: Leading Australian Telco storing data on behalf of US government

#12

Post by dcfindlay »

daegloe wrote: post #6
damncabbage wrote: post #2

Worse, a number of ISPs use Telstra's lines, eg. iiNet, Internode, TPG. I have no idea if that agreement also covered others using the same cables. (Telstra was government-owned until it was privatised from 1997-2000, and as such has a monopoly on most of the phone lines; the government sets the wholesale rates at which the lines are leased to other companies. Optus ran a bunch of their own cables, but the coverage i…

Still worse, as mandated by the Australian government, won't all internet traffic eventually switch over to the new government owned/controlled FTTP and wireless infrastructure of the National Broadband Network?

In our area the NBN has gone up recently, and we've received letters saying that the existing copper network will be decommissioned in a year so all landline phone users will need to get an NBN connection. If the Aus govt is baking intercept points into the NBN (not hard to imagine) then they'll be able to intercept phone traffic as well, whether they get cooperation from telcos or not.

Re: Leading Australian Telco storing data on behalf of US government

#13

Post by daegloe »

dcfindlay wrote: post #12
daegloe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still worse, as mandated by the Australian government, won't all internet traffic eventually switch over to the new government owned/controlled FTTP and wireless infrastructure of the National Broadband Network?

In our area the NBN has gone up recently, and we've received letters saying that the existing copper network will be decommissioned in a year so all landline phone users will need to get an NBN connection. If the Aus govt is baking intercept points into the NBN (not hard to imagine) then they'll be able to intercept phone traffic as well, whether they get cooperation from telcos or not.

From what I understand, the government has required the telcos to sign agreements forcing them to cooperate with the transition to NBN infrastructure.

Re: Leading Australian Telco storing data on behalf of US government

#14

Post by chii »

mtgx wrote: post #11
tnuc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody cared then and nobody cares now, except for a few IT geeks. In a 15 - 20 years from now the whole lot will have been mostly forgotten and accepted as normal. There and more important things in the politics such as gay marriage and immigration. Try watching CNN or Fox News and ignoring technical sites. The politicians want votes, they couldn't give a shit about your privacy. Australia and the US have been keepi…

Is there any reason why privacy couldn't become an issue as big as gay marriage? I don't think so. People just have to want it as badly and fight for it.

> Is there any reason why privacy couldn't become an issue as big as gay marriage?

many more laymen can understand gay marriage (whichever side of the fence they are on) than privacy implications of massive surveilence.

Re: Leading Australian Telco storing data on behalf of US government

#15

Post by decryptthis_NSA »

Big Telcos are at the mercy of big governments for anti-trust issues, contracts so this is not a surprise. DOJ and FBI can cause them many headaches.

This should bite them though when trying to buy foreign firms, cable links etc. No rational and influential country would let them do it after these leaks.

Re: Leading Australian Telco storing data on behalf of US government

#16

Post by dcfindlay »

Interesting that nobody I've talked to over here seems to be that surprised about the extensive data collection. A few people are annoyed about the unaccountable way it's been done and the abuse of power, real or potential, though.

It takes a lot to shake Aussies out of the "she'll be right" mentality, and we don't have a Fourth Amendment to be violated like the US does.

I also fear that the aware, technically literate people here won't attempt to move Parliament House on the issue, they'll just resort to stronger encryption.

edit:grammar

Re: Leading Australian Telco storing data on behalf of US government

#17

Post by sev »

Every time I try to explain the implications of privacy intrusion to friends some always argue, "who cares, as long as you're not doing something wrong" - they also don't care about identity theft or anything...they simply don't care. And I want them to care...how do I force them to?

Re: Leading Australian Telco storing data on behalf of US government

#18

Post by acqq »

sev wrote: post #17

Every time I try to explain the implications of privacy intrusion to friends some always argue, "who cares, as long as you're not doing something wrong" - they also don't care about identity theft or anything...they simply don't care. And I want them to care...how do I force them to?

Why do you think you have the right to "force" them?

Just explaining, only when they are interested to hear, and not giving theory but the real-life examples is the only sensible advice. Of course, you have to do your homework first.

Re: Leading Australian Telco storing data on behalf of US government

#19

Post by imagross »

sev wrote: post #17

Every time I try to explain the implications of privacy intrusion to friends some always argue, "who cares, as long as you're not doing something wrong" - they also don't care about identity theft or anything...they simply don't care. And I want them to care...how do I force them to?

Those attitudes are what makes a system like this incredibly scary, and what ultimately makes it most effective. What we've created is more or less a panoptic society where by knowing they are being watched all the time, people become self policing. At that point it's just a matter of how you define what is 'wrong' which is likely just going to be what opposes the current status quo.

Re: Leading Australian Telco storing data on behalf of US government

#20

Post by contingencies »

tnuc wrote: post #8
acqq wrote: post #3

One commenter there wrote and I'd like to read some reasonable answer to that: This is old news, obviously no one watched 4 Corners years ago – I think 15 – 20 yrs ago. I think it was about a program called Echelon. Remember the time a New Zealander broke into one of those unmanned “Pine Gap” sites (in NZ) and found mainframe computers downloading telecommunications data. Did we care then?

Nobody cared then and nobody cares now, except for a few IT geeks. In a 15 - 20 years from now the whole lot will have been mostly forgotten and accepted as normal. There and more important things in the politics such as gay marriage and immigration. Try watching CNN or Fox News and ignoring technical sites. The politicians want votes, they couldn't give a shit about your privacy. Australia and the US have been keepi…

Having discussed such issues with people internationally for 15 years, my experience paints a different picture. This is becoming an issue within many societies around the world, from China to north Africa to Europe to the Americas. While youth are certainly more aware of the challenges, the issues cross a generation gap and I have seen evidence of significant growth in concern even in the older parts of populations. Years ago, the number of people I could have a discussion with on these matters with was miniscule, these days absolute strangers broach the subject themselves.
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