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Colemak keyboard layout

colemak.com

11–20 of 55 posts

Re: Colemak keyboard layout

#11
post #2

I am cautious to change my keyboard layout because I use a lot of different machines. Has anyone tried this or the Programmer Dvorak layout? Ref: http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/

I think that if you're really concerned about this, stick with regular Dvorak. It's available pretty much everywhere without installing anything.

For Colemak, it's on every Linux distro and the Android stock keyboard from 4.0+. It's easily installable on Windows. I don't know about the current status on Mac and iOS.

Re: Colemak keyboard layout

#12
post #11
post #2

I am cautious to change my keyboard layout because I use a lot of different machines. Has anyone tried this or the Programmer Dvorak layout? Ref: http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/

I think that if you're really concerned about this, stick with regular Dvorak. It's available pretty much everywhere without installing anything. For Colemak, it's on every Linux distro and the Android stock keyboard from 4.0+. It's easily installable on Windows. I don't know about the current status on Mac and iOS.

No support on iOS without jail breaking, and I know OS X 10.8 has it by default.

Re: Colemak keyboard layout

#13

I've used Colemak for a year and a half now. The common shortcut keys are in the same place still (ctrl-c, ctrl-v, etc.). I use Vim and keep the default bindings and it works fine (though movement is odd.. up and down are inverted). I used to type at around 100 wpm with QWERTY and can reach that or higher now. I can still use QWERTY when I need to although I have to look down a bit. All in all I like it. It feels goo…

I went from Qwerty to Colemak over a year ago and I'd say that my experience is similar to yours. I'm not sure if I type faster now, but I know that my hands no long hurt after long computer sessions. The movement keys in Vim do seem weird, but it's really just muscle memory. After a few days you don't even think about it.

Re: Colemak keyboard layout

#14
I tried to switch to Colemak once, but it was too big of a change. I did, however, successfully switch to an alternative of the Carpalx QWKRFY layout: http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?partial_optimization

Instead of 5 swaps, I only do the first three (K/E, J/O, F/T). According to their scoring function, it gets you most of the way there anyways. (Whatever that's worth).

Their rankings of popular layouts might also be of interest: http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?popular_alternatives

Re: Colemak keyboard layout

#15
I'm not sure how relevant this is to anyone, but this post is as good excuse as any to talk about my transition to Colemak.

In January I moved from Qwerty to Colemak, and also from a staggered to a columnar keyboard layout (on a Kinesis keyboard[1]). My Qwerty speed was only 75 wpm and my accuracy was terrible. Also I couldn't touch type - I never learnt to type properly with Qwerty; I just started typing when I was young and developed lots of bad habits. By the time someone tried to teach me how to type properly my habits were too ingrained to change. (Or maybe I was too stubborn -- I also have a strange way of holding a pen.)

Anyway, I decided to change to Colemak, and to learn to touch type properly. I also liked the idea of a columnar layout so I changed to a Kinesis. What's interesting is that because of the physically different keyboards, I actually cannot type in Qwerty on my Kinesis, and I also cannot type in Colemak on my laptop keyboard. This means I have maintained my Qwerty skills.

My current maximum speed is roughly 70 wpm in Colemak, so I am almost at my Qwerty speed after 6 months, although now I can touch type so it's more useful. When I type with Qwerty now, it feels like my hands are flying all over the place. I also feel like I have a lot of room to get faster than I currently am with Colemak.

So even though I have maintained my Qwerty skills, the only reason I need them is because I can't get a laptop with a columnar keyboard. I may end up just biting the bullet and switching to Colemak on that laptop keyboard anyway, though missing the thumb cluster is killer.

One other interesting thing I learnt is that using Colemak on a smartphone completely sucks. Having commonly used keys on the home row on a small touchscreen means that it's much more error prone, as you're hitting the same area on the screen consecutively.

[1]: http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage.htm

Re: Colemak keyboard layout

#16

Lefthanders like me need an inverse Colemak to remain effective, given that many of the most used letters are on a QWERTY keyboard on my left hand (while with Colemak e.g. the E has moved to the right). Does an inverse Colemak exist?

I don't think this exists. Using the keyboard layout analyzer [1], it looks like your perceived hand usage might not match up with actual usage. At least for typing out Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Qwerty slightly favors the right hand (52% vs 48%). Colemak is only slightly worse for a lefty (56% vs 44%). Dvorak greatly favors the right hand (65% vs 35%).

[1] http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/

Re: Colemak keyboard layout

#17
post #2

I am cautious to change my keyboard layout because I use a lot of different machines. Has anyone tried this or the Programmer Dvorak layout? Ref: http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/

I use the standard Dvorak layout. It hasn't been that big a deal for me.

Things have gone something like this:

1) Learn Dvorak at a time when I only used my own machines. Stay that way for ~3 years.

During this time, after my typing speed and error rate had reached QWERTY levels, the occasional use of QWERTY on someone else's PC was highly annoying.

2) Spend 2-3 years in jobs involving near-daily use of machines I couldn't switch off QWERTY, but still did most of my work on Dvorak.

A few weeks into this, I was able to use QWERTY effectively again, still typing faster than most people ever can (though slower and more error-prone than I was with Dvorak).

3) Go back to exclusively using my own machines for ~2 years.

After a while, annoying to use QWERTY, but not nearly as bad as during period #1.

4) Spend ~9 months in similar situation as #2 again.

After a while, same as 2, a few weeks in things were pretty OK.

5) Now (for ~2 years), using only my own machines.

Occasional QWERTY is annoying, but even better than during #3.

I only speak English, but I suspect switching between Dvorak and QWERTY is kind of similar to switching between a language you use a lot and one you use a little. Degree of fluency in the little-used language goes up and down based on how much practice you're getting.

Re: Colemak keyboard layout

#18
post #15

I'm not sure how relevant this is to anyone, but this post is as good excuse as any to talk about my transition to Colemak. In January I moved from Qwerty to Colemak, and also from a staggered to a columnar keyboard layout (on a Kinesis keyboard[1]). My Qwerty speed was only 75 wpm and my accuracy was terrible. Also I couldn't touch type - I never learnt to type properly with Qwerty; I just started typing when I was…

Fascinating about the phone. iOS only supports colemak on an external keyboard (or in a custom app) so I've not tried it there. You make perfect sense.

I made a move fairly similar to yours. I went for the Truly Ergonomic keyboard because laterally staggered keys seem stupid if you're giving up Sholes anyway.

I typed about 5-10 wpm for the first month. No matter what I tried, it was far too slow. Part of this was losing faith and moving keycaps (on mac keyboards) and putting letters on the TE. That gave me a crutch for a while that kept me slow, although I was careful to maintain hand position.

Then suddenly, it clicked, and I went from 15wpm to 50, then up to about 90. I'm still slower than I was with Sholes after 1.5-2 years now, but I can type on any keyboard and not have pain or tingling.

That said, I am back to about 5 wpm with Sholes, and I'm perfectly fine with it. Just as when I first switched to colemak, it makes my emails and documents much more brief. I think about dictating The Diving Bell and the Butterfly and choose my words carefully.

(This was obviously typed on colemak. :-))

It took a long time to get used to emacs keybindings. I ended up using arrow keys for a long time. P and F are close enough that I ended up with a lot of confused misses.

What I like about colemak over Dvorak is that Dvorak is a pain for a lot of common unix commands. 'ls' is especially onerous.

Re: Colemak keyboard layout

#19
post #2

I am cautious to change my keyboard layout because I use a lot of different machines. Has anyone tried this or the Programmer Dvorak layout? Ref: http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/

I use the standard Dvorak layout. It hasn't been that big a deal for me. Things have gone something like this: 1) Learn Dvorak at a time when I only used my own machines. Stay that way for ~3 years. During this time, after my typing speed and error rate had reached QWERTY levels, the occasional use of QWERTY on someone else's PC was highly annoying. 2) Spend 2-3 years in jobs involving near-daily use of machines I co…

I switched to Dvorak 11+ years when I was in college and had a lot of time to kill. I think your spoken language fluency analogy is pretty accurate; I imagine I'll always retain a bit of my 'native' qwerty muscle-memory, but the more I practice it, the easier it is to make the mental 'switch' between languages.

That said, if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't switch to Dvorak. The efficiency gained on my keyboard layout does not offset the efficiency lost on shared computers.

Re: Colemak keyboard layout

#20
post #7

The author of that site should site stats comparing Colemak with Dvorak because that's really their 'competition' so to speak.

There's a link right on the front page ('Compare') to an applet which compares QWERTY, Dvorak, and Colemak..

Yeah but the author doesn't provide any summary stats or analysis like he/she does vs. qwerty. I would potentially be switching from dvorak - on average is there much difference?

I ended up pasting some posts from this thread into the compare tool. Colemak and dvorak seem pretty similar, with colemak consistently having slightly less same-finger usage (i.e. two keys in a row being pressed by the same finger). Both are about the same improvement over qwerty. Doesn't look like it's worth switching from dvorak.

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