3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament • Hacker News Board

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#11

Post by m0nastic » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 2:12 AM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #5

It seems like this should be super easy to spot by outfitting X-ray machines with computer vision that can compare shapes/outlines from the X-ray image with a massive catalog of 3D printed gun schematics. Of course this would only help with assembled guns, but it's a step in the right direction.

You would then basically have the airport screener version of Antivirus software (signature-based).

I suspect you'd end up having all the same problems that Antivirus software has (basically an arms race, I guess quite literally).

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#12

Post by Sanddancer » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 2:16 AM UTC

lemming wrote: post #3

3d printed guns are one of the few things I can think of that will make air travel even more inconvenient than it is now. This is going to be bad.

3d printed guns are a lot less scary than a number of things that exist already that could do a lot more damage. Given their construction, they're only accurate to a few feet, and given their one-time use abilities, you're not going to do much with them before you get tackled by several angry co-passengers.

Were I an evil terrorist, I'd be looking much more at other, completely legal things. Items such as two-part epoxies could be used to make a crude but effective knife, lithium batteries are trivially short-circuitable to cause a fire, etc. But, such things are much less glamorous and scary than a plastic derringer that's about as dangerous to the wielder as anyone else.

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#13

Post by lemming » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 2:25 AM UTC

Sanddancer wrote: post #12

lemming wrote: post #3

3d printed guns are one of the few things I can think of that will make air travel even more inconvenient than it is now. This is going to be bad.

3d printed guns are a lot less scary than a number of things that exist already that could do a lot more damage. Given their construction, they're only accurate to a few feet, and given their one-time use abilities, you're not going to do much with them before you get tackled by several angry co-passengers. Were I an evil terrorist, I'd be looking much more at other, completely legal things. Items such as two-part ep…

Sure, but airport security is all about the theatre, not so much about the actual security.

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#14

Post by hobs » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 2:38 AM UTC

PavlovsCat wrote: post #10

hobs wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it? Wouldn't the catalog be enormous, and the model could be from almost any angle? Not trying to call BS, I am not a computer vision expert, its just whenever someone says something like this I always wonder the actual feasibility.

I think it was in the 90s when I read about neural nets being used to correlate air plane type to a static silhouette (might have been radar) from any angle. Of course, airplanes can't be slightly modified and printed out in minutes, so I'm not sure this would work here, or how much of a PITA constantly retraining the neural net when new schematics are made would be.

That's pretty cool yo, thanks for illuminating!

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#15

Post by vacri » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 2:49 AM UTC

Sanddancer wrote: post #12

lemming wrote: post #3

3d printed guns are one of the few things I can think of that will make air travel even more inconvenient than it is now. This is going to be bad.

3d printed guns are a lot less scary than a number of things that exist already that could do a lot more damage. Given their construction, they're only accurate to a few feet, and given their one-time use abilities, you're not going to do much with them before you get tackled by several angry co-passengers. Were I an evil terrorist, I'd be looking much more at other, completely legal things. Items such as two-part ep…

There was a pilot who wrote an essay on the uselessness of the checks. Sure, check for firearms, but nail files and so forth can be found on the plane. One of his examples was to pull up a strip of emergency lighting and break it - now you have a pointy thing to use as a weapon.

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#16

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 2:52 AM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #7

lifeguard wrote: post #2

Plastic firearms are harmless.

correction: "Plastic firearms are [currently] "harmless" [in the grander scheme of things and in most cases]." AFAIK all current designs can only fire one bullet before breaking, making them pretty useless for most situations where someone would want one. The only legitimate threat they currently pose is targeted assassinations, and those are a non-issue if you don't have enemies. If you do, invest in bodyguards and…

[deleted]

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#17

Post by sp332 » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 3:05 AM UTC

Pre-9/11, my dad forgot a large serrated bread knife in his backpack when entering the French Parliament building. When he explained (very embarrassed and expecting trouble) that it was for his lunch, the guards smiled, gave him the knife back, and waved him through. I remember we admired how civilized the country was.

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#18

Post by MichaelGG » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 3:12 AM UTC

Sanddancer wrote: post #12

lemming wrote: post #3

3d printed guns are one of the few things I can think of that will make air travel even more inconvenient than it is now. This is going to be bad.

3d printed guns are a lot less scary than a number of things that exist already that could do a lot more damage. Given their construction, they're only accurate to a few feet, and given their one-time use abilities, you're not going to do much with them before you get tackled by several angry co-passengers. Were I an evil terrorist, I'd be looking much more at other, completely legal things. Items such as two-part ep…

It seems the existential threat to an airplane remains the same: cockpit access. Note that in some areas, taxis have more security than an airplane, in the sense that there's no way to escalate from passenger to pilot (dividing wall).

Even today, I see pilots open the cockpit during flight to use the toilet. Usually, the FA blocks the passageway with a cart. It seems plausible to me that there's a short period of time that a well-trained ninja-like attacker could leave their first class seat, and obtain cockpit access.

But I guess it'd be too expensive to provide full pilot separation.

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#19

Post by MichaelGG » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 3:13 AM UTC

6d0debc071 wrote: post #8

malandrew wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

correction: "Plastic firearms are [currently] "harmless" [in the grander scheme of things and in most cases]." AFAIK all current designs can only fire one bullet before breaking, making them pretty useless for most situations where someone would want one. The only legitimate threat they currently pose is targeted assassinations, and those are a non-issue if you don't have enemies. If you do, invest in bodyguards and…

Heck, a repeat of 9-11 went out the door when they decided to lock the cockpit. Which, really, they should have done much earlier considering all the planes that were hijacked in the past and the previous attempt(s?) to use planes as weapons against buildings. I can think of at least one person who got as far as a plane, intending to have it flown into the White House, I believe, long before 9-11. Really shoulda lock…

They still open them on many flights for the pilots to access the toilet.

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#20

Post by steve19 » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 3:20 AM UTC

lemming wrote: post #3

3d printed guns are one of the few things I can think of that will make air travel even more inconvenient than it is now. This is going to be bad.

Ammunition is pretty obvious on xrays. It would be just as easy to smuggle in a real metal single shot pistol (designed for the purpose) as it would be to smuggle in a plastic gun.

Any single shot pistol is going to be a useless weapon. Less dangerous than a knife in my opinion. Knives don't need to be reloaded and have unlimited ammunition.