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Bolivian Leader's Plane Rerouted on Snowden Fear
11–20 of 49 posts
Re: Bolivian Leader's Plane Rerouted on Snowden Fear
#12Possibly was an actual plane malfunction according to another comment on HN (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5981267)
Radio exchange at http://audioboo.fm/boos/1482009-bolivia-air-force-fuerza-aer...
Re: Bolivian Leader's Plane Rerouted on Snowden Fear
#13I am really surprised at how great the gap has become between the US Government's rhetoric and actual policy on human rights, foreign policy and government transparency. I just hope that Americans realise this and demand change sooner than later.
I completely agree, so please take this as an explanation and elucidation rather than a criticism: The concept of merely "demanding change" is unlikely to result in change, unless the term "demanding" includes actions that would result in significant disruption of economics and daily life (in which case that is an entirely different discussion).
The core piece in dampening a desire for change, in my thinking anyway, is the two-party system. Both parties are complicit and supportive of all this nonsense by an overwhelming internal majority. Outliers who join third parties are historically unsuccessful and outliers as candidates within the Democratic and Republican parties are rare. Even if you are lucky enough to have the chance to vote for someone radically pro-transparency or pro-privacy in federal election, the following still apply:
1. They are likely new, and years away from being in a leadership position of an important committee (where real accountability and change might begin).
2. They often fall into line over time. If they buck the party too often, too publicly and on too central of an issue, it is possible that the party will support them less in future national elections.
3. Any legislation they introduce, if acceptable at all, might well be diluted by amendments and through the committee process. Our congress appears slow and deadlocked because, it is in some ways designed to be. That is not me saying I agree with that design decision, but again just shining a light on the point.
The two-party system is a barrier to expressing (electorally) desire for change beyond a certain delta from the status quo. A multi-party system, though it might be fraught with other issues, would go some distance toward representing more varied sets of concerns.
Re: Bolivian Leader's Plane Rerouted on Snowden Fear
#14Possibly was an actual plane malfunction according to another comment on HN ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5981267 ) Radio exchange at http://audioboo.fm/boos/1482009-bolivia-air-force-fuerza-aer...
And my comment on that same thread regarding the one who posted that link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5981395
Re: Bolivian Leader's Plane Rerouted on Snowden Fear
#15Possibly was an actual plane malfunction according to another comment on HN ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5981267 ) Radio exchange at http://audioboo.fm/boos/1482009-bolivia-air-force-fuerza-aer...
According to The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-a...):
1.05am BST
Associated Press has published extracts from a statement issued by the Bolivian defence minister, Ruben Saavedra, who was also on the redirected plane.
It says the plane was allowed to land in Spain for refueling before flying on to Austria.
It describes the rerouting as a "hostile act" by the US goverment: This is a hostile act by the United States State Department which has used various European governments"
Re: Bolivian Leader's Plane Rerouted on Snowden Fear
#16I am really surprised at how great the gap has become between the US Government's rhetoric and actual policy on human rights, foreign policy and government transparency. I just hope that Americans realise this and demand change sooner than later.
I completely agree, so please take this as an explanation and elucidation rather than a criticism: The concept of merely "demanding change" is unlikely to result in change, unless the term "demanding" includes actions that would result in significant disruption of economics and daily life (in which case that is an entirely different discussion). The core piece in dampening a desire for change, in my thinking anyway,…
I completely agree... It has almost become impossible to 'demand change' from within the system, unless off course the change is within the acceptable norms.
Re: Bolivian Leader's Plane Rerouted on Snowden Fear
#17That's certainly a good way for Snowden to see where his friends and his enemies are, and at the same time expose to the world how much leverage the US has with many countries.
Re: Bolivian Leader's Plane Rerouted on Snowden Fear
#18Possibly was an actual plane malfunction according to another comment on HN ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5981267 ) Radio exchange at http://audioboo.fm/boos/1482009-bolivia-air-force-fuerza-aer...
According to The Guardian ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-a... ): 1.05am BST Associated Press has published extracts from a statement issued by the Bolivian defence minister, Ruben Saavedra, who was also on the redirected plane. It says the plane was allowed to land in Spain for refueling before flying on to Austria. It describes the rerouting as a "hostile act" by the US goverment: This…
I get that the defense minister was saying the plane was re-routed because of Snowden... but the pilot seemed to indicate it was a fuel indication issue. Would he be in on the conspiracy? Is this transcript from a different flight perhaps?
I don't know what went on exactly but all that re-routing a plane with Snowden on it does for the U.S. is... nothing, really. It's not like they're going to stop them from going to Bolivia, and some kind of blackbag shenanigans while the plane refuels on the runway would lead to much more international outcry than I think either Obama or Kerry would want to accept.
Even if we assume some kind of Darth Obama type nonsense I just don't see where this would have any upside for the U.S., which makes it seem a little implausible... even Obama has to be smarter than that.
Edit: As far as the transcript the possibility would make sense if it was a charter flight and not a Bolivian aircrew. It would still be quite insane for the U.S. to ask for that or any of the countries to participate though.
Re: Bolivian Leader's Plane Rerouted on Snowden Fear
#19Can anyone think of another time this has ever happened? Two countries denying airspace to an official transport from a third country with no existing war or conflict involved? Bonus points if the head of state is onboard, but I'll accept other examples with only lesser officials involved. It's absolutely shocking.
Portugal is a mess recently with several cabinet members resigning, including a key figure overseeing the implementation of terms agreed to in its bailout by the EU. I can see Portugal being in a particularly compliant mood at the moment in order to build good will with those that may have to help bail it out again.
But France? What could possibly be the motive other than bending to pressure from the US?
Re: Bolivian Leader's Plane Rerouted on Snowden Fear
#20Can anyone think of another time this has ever happened? Two countries denying airspace to an official transport from a third country with no existing war or conflict involved? Bonus points if the head of state is onboard, but I'll accept other examples with only lesser officials involved. It's absolutely shocking.
Portugal is a mess recently with several cabinet members resigning, including a key figure overseeing the implementation of terms agreed to in its bailout by the EU. I can see Portugal being in a particularly compliant mood at the moment in order to build good will with those that may have to help bail it out again. But France? What could possibly be the motive other than bending to pressure from the US?
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