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Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

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Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#11

Post by fusiongyro »

benjamincburns wrote: post #6
iball wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(OP here) I feel you, but did you read the caveat to all the criticisms? http://news.rapgenius.com/1620770 On balance, it's pretty chill. Even the people who totally buy in and devote huge portions of their life to this organization are mostly just really into meditation (as opposed to, say, devotion to the organization or the man behind it). Though some of tactics are kind of strong-arm-y, the emphasis is always on…

Have you found a version of this that isn't at all preachy or "strong-arm-y?" I feel like a huge benefit to meditation is that it allows people to arrive at their own conclusions. But what I worry about is that the "guidance" you'd receive in situations like this is more guidance to a set of predetermined ideals or conclusions, rather than guidance into how best to find your own. It's incredibly hard to do anything s…

Are you serious? You need help sitting quietly? What sort of guidance do you suppose someone could actually give you that would take any form other than telling you what to think?

You don't need help to do this. You don't need a magic tree, or to be in India to do this. Just sit quietly and meditate. Quit putting obstacles in your way and just do it. Forget teachers, instructors, gurus, priests, yogis, etc and just do it.

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#12

Post by kemiller »

iball wrote: post #5
peregrine wrote: post #4

The last section on cultish teachings seems like a deal breaker for me. I've read this a couple times and I just want to go to this place, and meditate in a safe place. I don't really want to be preached to.

(OP here) I feel you, but did you read the caveat to all the criticisms? http://news.rapgenius.com/1620770 On balance, it's pretty chill. Even the people who totally buy in and devote huge portions of their life to this organization are mostly just really into meditation (as opposed to, say, devotion to the organization or the man behind it). Though some of tactics are kind of strong-arm-y, the emphasis is always on…

Thanks for posting this. It's nice to know someone had such a similar ride. Makes me wonder if we all were experiencing something similar. I'm considering doing it again, and this reminded me.

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#13

Post by santu11 »

peregrine wrote: post #4

The last section on cultish teachings seems like a deal breaker for me. I've read this a couple times and I just want to go to this place, and meditate in a safe place. I don't really want to be preached to.

Hey, I have done the course multiple times. It is not cultish at all.

Even though some rules like not pointing the feet, segregation etc. look very rigid. But they make perfect sense as you understand the concept behind it all.

The rules are made so that there is as little disturbance as possible to your meditation practice. In an ideal meditation retreat of this kind, a person stays alone and meditates alone. So some rigid rules are made to help create such a condition.

The best thing what I liked was I did not have to believe in anything to start with. You benefit a lot if you practice the meditation and forget about understanding every piece of information.

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#14

Post by iball »

fusiongyro wrote: post #11
benjamincburns wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you found a version of this that isn't at all preachy or "strong-arm-y?" I feel like a huge benefit to meditation is that it allows people to arrive at their own conclusions. But what I worry about is that the "guidance" you'd receive in situations like this is more guidance to a set of predetermined ideals or conclusions, rather than guidance into how best to find your own. It's incredibly hard to do anything s…

Are you serious? You need help sitting quietly? What sort of guidance do you suppose someone could actually give you that would take any form other than telling you what to think? You don't need help to do this. You don't need a magic tree, or to be in India to do this. Just sit quietly and meditate. Quit putting obstacles in your way and just do it. Forget teachers, instructors, gurus, priests, yogis, etc and just d…

Meditation is hard. Having someone to listen to you and offer gentle encouragement from experience when you run into tough spots can be very helpful. As with everything, there's a balance to it, and falling into a dependent or worshipful relationship should be avoided

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#15

Post by Alex3917 »

peregrine wrote: post #4

The last section on cultish teachings seems like a deal breaker for me. I've read this a couple times and I just want to go to this place, and meditate in a safe place. I don't really want to be preached to.

"The last section on cultish teachings seems like a deal breaker for me."

I've done the same program at the same location, and it's really not cultish at all. Essentially you're not allowed to do anything that would distract you (or others) from meditating, and that's it. (E.g. you're not allowed to talk with others or eat junk food, as with most similar programs.) The teachings obviously come from a certain sect of buddhism, but that's why you're there. Yes, Goenka does make some counterintuitive claims about the underlying nature of the universe, but the basis for those claims are phenomenological experiences that people have had while meditating; they come from the same set of experiences that you yourself will have if you stick with it.

There are certainly a few aspects that are less than ideal, e.g. there isn't really any way to get medical advice if you need it apart from just quitting the program. But other than that it's hard to complain. It's free, the food is amazing, the quality of instruction is very high, the people are great, etc.

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#16

Post by billyshih »

I did this 10 day retreat and it turned my life around for the better. I wasn't having any life shattering problems, but was just uncomfortable with my life, e.g. confused about career and whether I should stay with my girlfriend.

I did not feel that it was cultish or strong-arm-y at all. Yes, they have rules, but most of them really do help with meditation or they are just cultural rules, which is fine. If I go to church, even though I don't believe it, I'm ok with dressing decently, sitting where I'm supposed to and not yelling in the middle of it. They even tell you that you don't have to chant if you don't want to (I never did.)

Keep in mind that this is all volunteer run, so your experience will vary based on who is managing the course as well as the location of the course. So your experience with a strict course manager/teacher will be different with someone more chill.

I pointed my feet at the TV all the time and no one ever gave me crap about it.

At the end of the day you get 10 days of meditation teaching, lodging and food for free. If you get nothing out of Vipassana, at least you got to learn how to be away from everything for 10 days.

I got that and much more from the experience.

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#17

Post by benjamincburns »

fusiongyro wrote: post #11
benjamincburns wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you found a version of this that isn't at all preachy or "strong-arm-y?" I feel like a huge benefit to meditation is that it allows people to arrive at their own conclusions. But what I worry about is that the "guidance" you'd receive in situations like this is more guidance to a set of predetermined ideals or conclusions, rather than guidance into how best to find your own. It's incredibly hard to do anything s…

Are you serious? You need help sitting quietly? What sort of guidance do you suppose someone could actually give you that would take any form other than telling you what to think? You don't need help to do this. You don't need a magic tree, or to be in India to do this. Just sit quietly and meditate. Quit putting obstacles in your way and just do it. Forget teachers, instructors, gurus, priests, yogis, etc and just d…

Actually, quiet often I do need help sitting quietly - but that's a tangent I'd rather not get into right now.

While meditation is incredibly simple, it is far, far more difficult than just sitting quietly. Meditation is observing and (hopefully gently) directing your mental focus.

Try it sometime for 10-20 minutes. Sit down someplace quiet, close your eyes, and choose some very simple thought to focus on. Try to keep your mind from flailing about. It's incredibly difficult. There's absolutely no way I could make it through a 10 day exercise like this without guidance.

Some people do this for specific purposes such as working out a problem that they're having, or just promoting attentiveness, and sometimes it's just a matter of exercising general discipline so that other discipline will follow outside of meditation.

In support of my original comment, this is the easiest place I've found to apply the lens of metaphor. People will talk about meditation in terms of energy, vibrations, and flow. If you just think of these terms in the context of focus - the intensity, oscillation, and well, flow of focus, it gets a lot easier to accept.

Edit:

To answer your "what types of guidance" question directly, there are all kinds of non leading guidance to be given. Simple examples include "sit someplace comfortable," and "don't feel guilty should your mind start to wander."

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#18

Post by benjamincburns »

Alex3917 wrote: post #15
peregrine wrote: post #4

The last section on cultish teachings seems like a deal breaker for me. I've read this a couple times and I just want to go to this place, and meditate in a safe place. I don't really want to be preached to.

"The last section on cultish teachings seems like a deal breaker for me." I've done the same program at the same location, and it's really not cultish at all. Essentially you're not allowed to do anything that would distract you (or others) from meditating, and that's it. (E.g. you're not allowed to talk with others or eat junk food, as with most similar programs.) The teachings obviously come from a certain sect of…

> they come from the same set of experiences that you yourself will have if you stick with it

I ask this very non-rhetorically - do you believe that this is a totally natural convergence of thought, or is it possible that this is the progression of thought that this particular set of guidance will lead you toward?

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#19

Post by fusiongyro »

benjamincburns wrote: post #17
fusiongyro wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious? You need help sitting quietly? What sort of guidance do you suppose someone could actually give you that would take any form other than telling you what to think? You don't need help to do this. You don't need a magic tree, or to be in India to do this. Just sit quietly and meditate. Quit putting obstacles in your way and just do it. Forget teachers, instructors, gurus, priests, yogis, etc and just d…

Actually, quiet often I do need help sitting quietly - but that's a tangent I'd rather not get into right now. While meditation is incredibly simple, it is far, far more difficult than just sitting quietly. Meditation is observing and (hopefully gently) directing your mental focus. Try it sometime for 10-20 minutes. Sit down someplace quiet, close your eyes, and choose some very simple thought to focus on. Try to kee…

I'm not saying it's easy. I'm saying nobody can really help you.

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#20

Post by Alex3917 »

benjamincburns wrote: post #18
Alex3917 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The last section on cultish teachings seems like a deal breaker for me." I've done the same program at the same location, and it's really not cultish at all. Essentially you're not allowed to do anything that would distract you (or others) from meditating, and that's it. (E.g. you're not allowed to talk with others or eat junk food, as with most similar programs.) The teachings obviously come from a certain sect of…

> they come from the same set of experiences that you yourself will have if you stick with it I ask this very non-rhetorically - do you believe that this is a totally natural convergence of thought, or is it possible that this is the progression of thought that this particular set of guidance will lead you toward?

"do you believe that this is a totally natural convergence of thought, or is it possible that this is the progression of thought that this particular set of guidance will lead you toward?"

Happy to answer, but I'm not sure I understand the question -- could you rephrase?

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