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Complaint filed against Irish subsidiaries of Apple, Facebook

irishtimes.com

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Re: Complaint filed against Irish subsidiaries of Apple, Facebook

#11

Post by itg »

Article also mentioned Microsoft, Skype, and Yahoo will be targeted in other countries but there was nothing about Google or Youtube. However, found this on techcrunch:

"Google and YouTube have not been included in this first round of evf complaints being as they have a different corporate structure that does not include European subsidiaries. However it notes they do have datacenters in European countries, which will give evf a route to filing Prism-related data protection complaints against both at a later date."

Forcing these companies to give data has weakened their competitiveness globally.

Re: Complaint filed against Irish subsidiaries of Apple, Facebook

#12

Post by revscat »

itg wrote: post #11

Article also mentioned Microsoft, Skype, and Yahoo will be targeted in other countries but there was nothing about Google or Youtube. However, found this on techcrunch: "Google and YouTube have not been included in this first round of evf complaints being as they have a different corporate structure that does not include European subsidiaries. However it notes they do have datacenters in European countries, which wil…

I am curious to see if the business case against the NSA's power will have an effect. Right now I think things favor the bureaucracy. But if Apple, Google, Facebook, etc. make a broad push against it, we could see legislative changes which protect them.

A likely scenario is something which indemnifies them against any losses incurred as a result of foreign suits related to privacy breaches, so long as they're in accordance with US law.

Re: Complaint filed against Irish subsidiaries of Apple, Facebook

#13

Post by arethuza »

itg wrote: post #11

Article also mentioned Microsoft, Skype, and Yahoo will be targeted in other countries but there was nothing about Google or Youtube. However, found this on techcrunch: "Google and YouTube have not been included in this first round of evf complaints being as they have a different corporate structure that does not include European subsidiaries. However it notes they do have datacenters in European countries, which wil…

Google certainly appears to have at least one European subsidiary (Google UK Limited, Company #03977902) and I'd be pretty surprised if they didn't have subsidiaries in most European countries.

Re: Complaint filed against Irish subsidiaries of Apple, Facebook

#14

Post by thenewkid »

The lawsuit targets the Irish subsidiary because that's where the money is. If they move they will probably pay higher taxes. Quite clever!

> The group’s complaint draws on the precedent set in 2006, which found that a mass transfer of data to the US authorities was illegal under EU law... The Swift case was closed when the company moved its data centre from Belgium to Switzerland.

Re: Complaint filed against Irish subsidiaries of Apple, Facebook

#15

Post by maxerickson »

PedroBatista wrote: post #10
maxerickson wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean there is no reasonable legal expectation of privacy on a public street. I certainly expect that you will not follow me around videotaping me.

Your are in a public space, people can videotape you the same way they can look at you instead of everyone closing their eyes the moment put your feet on a side-walk. Just look at all the photos you have taken, how many strangers are in them?

Sure, my point is that there is a technical legal argument and then there are social mores. We shouldn't let the legal argument start leading our values.

I invite you to actively start photographing or videotaping some strangers if you think such behavior is entirely within people's expectations.

Re: Complaint filed against Irish subsidiaries of Apple, Facebook

#16

Post by lifeformed »

itg wrote: post #11

Article also mentioned Microsoft, Skype, and Yahoo will be targeted in other countries but there was nothing about Google or Youtube. However, found this on techcrunch: "Google and YouTube have not been included in this first round of evf complaints being as they have a different corporate structure that does not include European subsidiaries. However it notes they do have datacenters in European countries, which wil…

I hope we can finally see big businesses use all their political clout for the public good for once (well, at least indirectly).

Re: Complaint filed against Irish subsidiaries of Apple, Facebook

#17

Post by furyg3 »

revscat wrote: post #12
itg wrote: post #11

Article also mentioned Microsoft, Skype, and Yahoo will be targeted in other countries but there was nothing about Google or Youtube. However, found this on techcrunch: "Google and YouTube have not been included in this first round of evf complaints being as they have a different corporate structure that does not include European subsidiaries. However it notes they do have datacenters in European countries, which wil…

I am curious to see if the business case against the NSA's power will have an effect. Right now I think things favor the bureaucracy. But if Apple, Google, Facebook, etc. make a broad push against it, we could see legislative changes which protect them. A likely scenario is something which indemnifies them against any losses incurred as a result of foreign suits related to privacy breaches, so long as they're in acco…

It will become a problem when European countries / organisations start requiring that data cannot be stored or managed at a US datacenter or by a US organisation.

You already see this happening with with datacenter locations...

Re: Complaint filed against Irish subsidiaries of Apple, Facebook

#18

Post by narcissus »

revscat wrote: post #12
itg wrote: post #11

Article also mentioned Microsoft, Skype, and Yahoo will be targeted in other countries but there was nothing about Google or Youtube. However, found this on techcrunch: "Google and YouTube have not been included in this first round of evf complaints being as they have a different corporate structure that does not include European subsidiaries. However it notes they do have datacenters in European countries, which wil…

I am curious to see if the business case against the NSA's power will have an effect. Right now I think things favor the bureaucracy. But if Apple, Google, Facebook, etc. make a broad push against it, we could see legislative changes which protect them. A likely scenario is something which indemnifies them against any losses incurred as a result of foreign suits related to privacy breaches, so long as they're in acco…

If they were paying taxes in the US then maybe they could feel a little annoyed that the US might cause them business troubles elsewhere.

Instead, they're in that awful predicament where the senators they pay are screwing them, but the government as a representation of the people doesn't care.

Re: Complaint filed against Irish subsidiaries of Apple, Facebook

#19

Post by rmc »

revscat wrote: post #12
itg wrote: post #11

Article also mentioned Microsoft, Skype, and Yahoo will be targeted in other countries but there was nothing about Google or Youtube. However, found this on techcrunch: "Google and YouTube have not been included in this first round of evf complaints being as they have a different corporate structure that does not include European subsidiaries. However it notes they do have datacenters in European countries, which wil…

I am curious to see if the business case against the NSA's power will have an effect. Right now I think things favor the bureaucracy. But if Apple, Google, Facebook, etc. make a broad push against it, we could see legislative changes which protect them. A likely scenario is something which indemnifies them against any losses incurred as a result of foreign suits related to privacy breaches, so long as they're in acco…

A likely scenario is something which indemnifies them against any losses incurred as a result of foreign suits related to privacy breaches, so long as they're in accordance with US law.

But that would only work in USA. What if a court in Germany fines Google Germany Ltd €1,000,000, and €100,000 per day until they stop sharing data with the US Gov? Will the US government give Google €1,000,000 to pay off the fine? What if the court in Germany confiscates the Google Germany Ltd's property? Will the US Gov reimbuse Google? What if a court in Germany forces all German ISPs to block Google? Will the US Gov reimburse Google?

Remember this companies (Google/Apple/Microsoft/Facebook/etc.) have local companies, local offices, local property and local employees. They can ignore local law only if they leave the country.

Re: Complaint filed against Irish subsidiaries of Apple, Facebook

#20

Post by rmc »

thenewkid wrote: post #14

The lawsuit targets the Irish subsidiary because that's where the money is. If they move they will probably pay higher taxes. Quite clever! > The group’s complaint draws on the precedent set in 2006, which found that a mass transfer of data to the US authorities was illegal under EU law... The Swift case was closed when the company moved its data centre from Belgium to Switzerland.

(a) It's not a lawsuit, but a complaint to the Irish Data Protection Commissioner, which is like a type of court. The DPC can force companies to reveal what they hold on people, and can require them to do (or not do) a thing if it breaks Irish data protection law.

(b) Facebook Ireland Ltd (an Irish company) was targetted, not because it's "where the money is", but because if you sign up to Facebook and you're not in the USA or Canada, then you have a legal relationship with Facebook Ireland Ltd, and fall under Irish data protection law.

(cf. section 19 of https://www.facebook.com/legal/terms )

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