I'm more worried whether there's a bias against hackers from non-name-brand colleges, especially in the startup community.
Ask HN: Is there a bias against hackers from 'name-brand' colleges?
11–20 of 20 posts
Re: Ask HN: Is there a bias against hackers from 'name-brand' colleges?
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
thanks for the quick reply! i'm curious about your statement about "skill commensurate with the name brand of your degree" ... does that imply that certain people are held to a higher standard due to where they went to college? that seems unfair both to those people (who have unreasonably elevated expectations) and to everyone else (who have lowered expectations since they don't have a name-brand diploma). if 2 peopl…
Is it really unfair to hold someone to a higher standard because they went to a 'good' school? I think part of the way we estimate future performance is by examining past performance, and performing well at a name-brand school should indicate ability to perform well at tasks for which their education prepared them. On the other hand, doing well at a non-name-brand school doesn't mean another person can't perform well…
Is it really unfair to hold someone to a higher standard because they went to a 'good' school? I think part of the way we estimate future performance is by examining past performance, and performing well at a name-brand school should indicate ability to perform well at tasks for which their education prepared them.
On the other hand, doing well at a non-name-brand school doesn't mean another person can't perform well, it just means that you can't predict quite as easily how well they'll do.
I agree with this, which is why I put "unfairness" in quotes in my other response. There's a certain political correctness that makes people uneasy about comparing two candidates based on the schools they went to. The fact is, the rigor of training for the same degree varies wildly depending on the school you attended.
If you're comparing two seemingly equivalent unknowns who've got no body of work other than a degree, I think it makes perfect sense to bias towards the person who completed the better program.
Re: Ask HN: Is there a bias against hackers from 'name-brand' colleges?
#13"Hackers are some of the most meritocratic and egalitarian people I know..." Maybe you need to meet some new hackers. I have never seen this. Ever. 30 years. 90 companies. 1,000,000 lines of code. Maybe it's just because people who know me know better than to bother with details instead of issues. Your "pedigree" is a detail. Your work is an issue. Don't waste your time with those who don't know the difference.
Your reaction to this suggests to me that you may have mistaken what meritocratic and egalitarian mean. People with these qualities do not usually care about things such as ones "pedigree", thus the GP's confusion that hackers look down upon people who've attended "name-brand" universities.
If not, please elaborate on your post as I do not understand how you in 30 years can not have met hackers with these qualities.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/meritocratic http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/egalitarian
Re: Ask HN: Is there a bias against hackers from 'name-brand' colleges?
#14"Hackers are some of the most meritocratic and egalitarian people I know..." Maybe you need to meet some new hackers. I have never seen this. Ever. 30 years. 90 companies. 1,000,000 lines of code. Maybe it's just because people who know me know better than to bother with details instead of issues. Your "pedigree" is a detail. Your work is an issue. Don't waste your time with those who don't know the difference.
Your reaction to this suggests to me that you may have mistaken what meritocratic and egalitarian mean. People with these qualities do not usually care about things such as ones "pedigree", thus the GP's confusion that hackers look down upon people who've attended "name-brand" universities. If not, please elaborate on your post as I do not understand how you in 30 years can not have met hackers with these qualities.…
Sorry. The part of OP's post I have never seen was that "backlash" part, not the "meritocratic and egalitarian" part. I see now how that could have been misinterpreted because my manual string extraction was off by 62 characters.
But thanks smacking me with 2 dictionary links. That oughta fix it.
Re: Ask HN: Is there a bias against hackers from 'name-brand' colleges?
#15I'm more worried whether there's a bias against hackers from non-name-brand colleges, especially in the startup community.
really? isn't the startup community supposed to be more anti-establishment and not worry about paper credentials as much as, say, a large corporation or government organization?
Re: Ask HN: Is there a bias against hackers from 'name-brand' colleges?
#16It's no coincidence that startups start around universities, because that's where smart people meet. It's not what people learn in classes at MIT and Stanford that has made technology companies spring up around them. They could sing campfire songs in the classes so long as admissions worked the same.
-Paul Graham. "How to Start a Startup," March 2005.
Re: Ask HN: Is there a bias against hackers from 'name-brand' colleges?
#17There's jealousy sometimes, but ultimately if you've got skill commensurate (or better) with the name brand of your degree, it's not a problem at all. Most people are cool. If you're an arrogant ass, you'll get treated like one. If you got hired by management based on your school, but you can't code very well, people will look down on you. Actually, the broader backlash by far seems to be from some self-taught hacker…
thanks for the quick reply! i'm curious about your statement about "skill commensurate with the name brand of your degree" ... does that imply that certain people are held to a higher standard due to where they went to college? that seems unfair both to those people (who have unreasonably elevated expectations) and to everyone else (who have lowered expectations since they don't have a name-brand diploma). if 2 peopl…
> that seems unfair
LOL welcome to life, buddy.
Re: Ask HN: Is there a bias against hackers from 'name-brand' colleges?
#18There's jealousy sometimes, but ultimately if you've got skill commensurate (or better) with the name brand of your degree, it's not a problem at all. Most people are cool. If you're an arrogant ass, you'll get treated like one. If you got hired by management based on your school, but you can't code very well, people will look down on you. Actually, the broader backlash by far seems to be from some self-taught hacker…
thanks for the quick reply! i'm curious about your statement about "skill commensurate with the name brand of your degree" ... does that imply that certain people are held to a higher standard due to where they went to college? that seems unfair both to those people (who have unreasonably elevated expectations) and to everyone else (who have lowered expectations since they don't have a name-brand diploma). if 2 peopl…
does that imply that certain people are held to a higher standard due to where they went to college? that seems unfair both to those people (who have unreasonably elevated expectations)
What makes those higher expectations "unreasonable"? All else being equal, I'd expect the quality of an average grad from Stanford or MIT to be higher than the average grad of some random state school. Of course, there is always more information to consider -- the work you've actually done is far more important than where you went to school, and there are great people at unknown schools (and mediocre people at top places). But in the absence of more information about a candidate, I think marginally higher expectations for grads of top schools is justified.
Re: Ask HN: Is there a bias against hackers from 'name-brand' colleges?
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your reaction to this suggests to me that you may have mistaken what meritocratic and egalitarian mean. People with these qualities do not usually care about things such as ones "pedigree", thus the GP's confusion that hackers look down upon people who've attended "name-brand" universities. If not, please elaborate on your post as I do not understand how you in 30 years can not have met hackers with these qualities.…
Sorry. The part of OP's post I have never seen was that "backlash" part, not the "meritocratic and egalitarian" part. I see now how that could have been misinterpreted because my manual string extraction was off by 62 characters. But thanks smacking me with 2 dictionary links. That oughta fix it.
No offense was intended, I simply did not parse your reaction to what you quoted.
Re: Ask HN: Is there a bias against hackers from 'name-brand' colleges?
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it really unfair to hold someone to a higher standard because they went to a 'good' school? I think part of the way we estimate future performance is by examining past performance, and performing well at a name-brand school should indicate ability to perform well at tasks for which their education prepared them. On the other hand, doing well at a non-name-brand school doesn't mean another person can't perform well…
Is it really unfair to hold someone to a higher standard because they went to a 'good' school? I think part of the way we estimate future performance is by examining past performance, and performing well at a name-brand school should indicate ability to perform well at tasks for which their education prepared them. On the other hand, doing well at a non-name-brand school doesn't mean another person can't perform well…
I should have been more clear about what I was responding to - this commend by rdr:
"does that imply that certain people are held to a higher standard due to where they went to college? that seems unfair both to those people (who have unreasonably elevated expectations) and to everyone else (who have lowered expectations since they don't have a name-brand diploma)."
I agreed with both your original comment and the follow-up. The question of fairness got me thinking, though, and I wanted to present one way of thinking about it.