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Prince Of Persia Code Review

fabiensanglard.net

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Re: Prince Of Persia Code Review

#11

Post by mhd »

glurgh wrote: post #9
mhd wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The C64 reverse engineering covers that a bit. At least regarding general data structures, as opposed to in-depth Apple II hackery (you get some C64 hackery instead, of course). http://popc64.blogspot.com

Ok, that is the craziest (in a good way) thing I've seen in some time. I'd have thought PoP had been ported to the C64 at the time - Karateka was ported just about everything. So in 2011, starting with the Apple source, disassembly dumps, graphics from a free version, looking at the PC port and god knows what else, someone ported it to the C64. Amazing. EDIT: Oh, and apparently the Apple ][ source hadn't been found a…

If I remember correctly, the ported game does need a memory extension, which would've been a no-go back then. Wonder how much you would have to cripple the ported effort to fit in in there, if at all possible with the same approach...

Re: Prince Of Persia Code Review

#12

Post by laurent123456 »

superasn wrote: post #10

Love how most games were mainly a one man show back in the 80s. Jordan Mechner, John Carmack could be used as aliases for the games. Btw, I read a very similar article about Doom / sometime ago about the Magical Square Root Implementation In Quake III, another interesting read[1] [1] http://www.codemaestro.com/reviews/9

Another World by Eric Chahi, also reviewed by Sanglard [1] is a great example too. I love how he made all the game engine fits in only 20 KB, with the bulk of the game written in opcodes, interpreted by a VM. That made it very easy to port the game to any platform since there was only 20 KB to convert.

[1] http://fabiensanglard.net/anotherWorld_code_review/index.php

Re: Prince Of Persia Code Review

#14

Post by coldcode »

Having written a VT100 terminal emulator in 6502 assembly back in those days I remember it well. But games had to be more clever as the memory was so tight. At least in my case the only fun part was showing 80 columns of data on a 40 column screen (if the user had no 80 column video card). Today we can focus much more on just writing code instead of engaging in daily hackery.

Re: Prince Of Persia Code Review

#15

Post by glurgh »

mhd wrote: post #11
glurgh wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, that is the craziest (in a good way) thing I've seen in some time. I'd have thought PoP had been ported to the C64 at the time - Karateka was ported just about everything. So in 2011, starting with the Apple source, disassembly dumps, graphics from a free version, looking at the PC port and god knows what else, someone ported it to the C64. Amazing. EDIT: Oh, and apparently the Apple ][ source hadn't been found a…

If I remember correctly, the ported game does need a memory extension, which would've been a no-go back then. Wonder how much you would have to cripple the ported effort to fit in in there, if at all possible with the same approach...

Yep, it looks like it requires a 128KB Apple //e and up. In the comments of the blog, Mechner mentions he couldn't get anyone interested in porting it to the C64 at the time as the system was considered too old. I guess by '89, 128 KB Commodores weren't considered that interesting of a market.

The original must have needed all the memory it could get its hands on - looks like it doesn't use the Apple //'s 'double high res' modes, for instance.

Forum thread of Sanglard trying to sort the thing out, with the help of some 6502-heads is also entertaining:

http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2223

Almost makes you want to combine the two actually hacker-ish posts of the last two days - the lightweight block ciphers and this and burn a weekend implementing SIMON in 6502 assembly. Almost.

Re: Prince Of Persia Code Review

#16

Post by VikingCoder »

jasonlotito wrote: post #2

Just for reference, these are two books that were from the journal of Jordan Mechner written while writing Prince of Persia and Karateka. They are enjoyable reads, and I highly recommend them. http://www.amazon.com/Making-Prince-Persia-Journals-1985/dp/... http://www.amazon.com/The-Making-Karateka-Journals-1982-1985...

Do they look good on Kindle, or is the physical book vastly better?

Re: Prince Of Persia Code Review

#17

Post by jmileham »

superasn wrote: post #10

Love how most games were mainly a one man show back in the 80s. Jordan Mechner, John Carmack could be used as aliases for the games. Btw, I read a very similar article about Doom / sometime ago about the Magical Square Root Implementation In Quake III, another interesting read[1] [1] http://www.codemaestro.com/reviews/9

Cool. In the comments from that post, there's another article that traces that inverse square root implementation back even further - almost 20 years back at this point:

http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/8/

Re: Prince Of Persia Code Review

#18

Post by glurgh »

superasn wrote: post #10

Love how most games were mainly a one man show back in the 80s. Jordan Mechner, John Carmack could be used as aliases for the games. Btw, I read a very similar article about Doom / sometime ago about the Magical Square Root Implementation In Quake III, another interesting read[1] [1] http://www.codemaestro.com/reviews/9

Carmack's famous games were not developed solo - he developed the breakthrough enabling technology that made the game possible - full-screen sidescrolling on a PC, 3D stuff, etc.

Mechner's games stand out in part because he seems to have done just about everything himself and, especially for the time all the parts are outstanding - the design, the artwork, the 'art direction', the animation, the gameplay. And then he went off and churned them out in 6502 assembly.

Re: Prince Of Persia Code Review

#19

Post by daeken »

VikingCoder wrote: post #16
jasonlotito wrote: post #2

Just for reference, these are two books that were from the journal of Jordan Mechner written while writing Prince of Persia and Karateka. They are enjoyable reads, and I highly recommend them. http://www.amazon.com/Making-Prince-Persia-Journals-1985/dp/... http://www.amazon.com/The-Making-Karateka-Journals-1982-1985...

Do they look good on Kindle, or is the physical book vastly better?

I've read the PoP journals many times on Kindle, and it looks great. Can't speak to the Karateka journal, but I imagine it's not far off.

Re: Prince Of Persia Code Review

#20

Post by petercooper »

jasonlotito wrote: post #4
petercooper wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really enjoyed the Prince of Persia one. It's relatively lacking (though not totally) in terms of the coding side of things but there's a really good story and sense of what it took to push a complete game out of the door at the time.

Karateka is different, as it's about writing a game in your spare time (really simplifying things). You realize how much time he spent writing it, how often he would be close to finishing, only to have a lot more work to do. If you enjoyed PoP, you'll like Kareteka.

Thanks, I'll give it a go. I think I got the Karateka book in some bundle that was on sale recently. The only reason I didn't jump on it yet was because I'm not/wasn't familiar with the game.
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