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All calls in the Netherlands are stored, indexed and searched for keywords

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Re: All calls in the Netherlands are stored, indexed and searched for keywords

#11

Post by yread »

lostlogin wrote: post #8
johansch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a homegrown Islamist network assassinated a well-known dutch film director after he made a movie criticizing the treatment of women in Islam: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)

What? So you can have attacks on your country without requiring the world to go into lockdown, without having to invade several countries and without having to molest every traveler?

The dutch took part in both operation enduring freedom and iraqi freedom. So you could say they did invade several countries.

Re: All calls in the Netherlands are stored, indexed and searched for keywords

#12

Post by ohwp »

lucb1e wrote: post #2

I call bullshit. Phone metadata is saved since forever yes, but stored at ISPs, not at government organisations. There are strict regulations regarding the privacy of voice data over the phone (VoIP does not count as such though), and I don't think the secret service and military secret service (AIVD and MIVD) can do anything they like. They have more permissions, such as demanding passwords for encrypted files as lo…

I agree this is a bullshit story. They only store conversations when they have an eavesdrop approval.

A lot of people underestimate the amount of storage it would take to store all voice data.

Re: All calls in the Netherlands are stored, indexed and searched for keywords

#13

Post by [deleted] »

johansch wrote: post #9
lostlogin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? So you can have attacks on your country without requiring the world to go into lockdown, without having to invade several countries and without having to molest every traveler?

I agree that is irrational behavior. But saying the Netherlands is tranquil in this aspect is wrong, was my point.

[deleted]

Re: All calls in the Netherlands are stored, indexed and searched for keywords

#14

Post by Father »

lucb1e wrote: post #2

I call bullshit. Phone metadata is saved since forever yes, but stored at ISPs, not at government organisations. There are strict regulations regarding the privacy of voice data over the phone (VoIP does not count as such though), and I don't think the secret service and military secret service (AIVD and MIVD) can do anything they like. They have more permissions, such as demanding passwords for encrypted files as lo…

I think it's dangerous to go on record beforehand claiming something is "bullshit". If I've learned anything over the last view days it's that reports like these should be taken seriously and no stone should be left unturned to find out the truth. We can't just assume intelligence operations can't; we need to know they can't. Let the House of Representatives proof it's nonsense. Also, thanks for adding the bit about CIOT.

Re: All calls in the Netherlands are stored, indexed and searched for keywords

#15

Post by lucb1e »

ohwp wrote: post #12
lucb1e wrote: post #2

I call bullshit. Phone metadata is saved since forever yes, but stored at ISPs, not at government organisations. There are strict regulations regarding the privacy of voice data over the phone (VoIP does not count as such though), and I don't think the secret service and military secret service (AIVD and MIVD) can do anything they like. They have more permissions, such as demanding passwords for encrypted files as lo…

I agree this is a bullshit story. They only store conversations when they have an eavesdrop approval. A lot of people underestimate the amount of storage it would take to store all voice data.

True actually. Ironically, a call itself is much more expensive than storing it for 20 years would be.

They do have a lot of eavesdrop approvals though, or so I heard from a colleague. (But that still doesn't mean they capture all the calls.)

Re: All calls in the Netherlands are stored, indexed and searched for keywords

#16

Post by merijn481 »

The newspaper that published this, 'Telegraaf', is notorious for publishing bullshit. The article is very short, the journalist wouldn't be able to check if it's true, and the newspaper hungry to publish anything that attracts readers. Offline version of link-bait.

Re: All calls in the Netherlands are stored, indexed and searched for keywords

#18

Post by toyg »

lostlogin wrote: post #8
johansch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a homegrown Islamist network assassinated a well-known dutch film director after he made a movie criticizing the treatment of women in Islam: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)

What? So you can have attacks on your country without requiring the world to go into lockdown, without having to invade several countries and without having to molest every traveler?

> without having to molest every traveler

Schiphol is organised better than most comparable airports, and it has improved dramatically in the last 5 years, but the level of actual harassment can still be quite high (seems to vary by day).

Re: All calls in the Netherlands are stored, indexed and searched for keywords

#20

Post by jvdh »

lucb1e wrote: post #2

I call bullshit. Phone metadata is saved since forever yes, but stored at ISPs, not at government organisations. There are strict regulations regarding the privacy of voice data over the phone (VoIP does not count as such though), and I don't think the secret service and military secret service (AIVD and MIVD) can do anything they like. They have more permissions, such as demanding passwords for encrypted files as lo…

The CIOT system can not legally be queried "at will", they have to have permission. Although the bar for this permission is incredibly low, I believe there have been some cases where it was denied.
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