Maybe lawmakes should have immunity about the things they say while in office. This way the executive branch will have to ask for silence instead of demanding it. And they will be free to leak something that is outrageous.
Obama's NSA Defense: Congress Can Raise Objections It Can't Actually Raise
11–20 of 33 posts
Re: Obama's NSA Defense: Congress Can Raise Objections It Can't Actually Raise
#12Article 1, Section 6: "They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place"
I don't understand why some of them aren't becoming whistleblowers, either. Maybe because Obama has already shown he is willing to use the Espionage Act against whistleblowers, because his logic is that "any revelation of our wrongdoings helps the enemy". That seems like a very weak argument to me either way. But why aren't Americans in the street already? Europeans would be already in the street by now for a lot les…
> But why aren't Americans in the street already?
Because they don't care too much ? Honestly there should have been multiple occasions for the American people to go and protest in the recent past but they did not. That's very easy for the government to continue and see how far they can go. The answer is : very far.
Re: Obama's NSA Defense: Congress Can Raise Objections It Can't Actually Raise
#13Congress would have rubberstamped "defense paranoia" anyway, doesn't matter.
What I am curious about is the next presidential race and what the candidates are going to promise, because Obama basically played a huge word game.
He said he was against illegal spying on the country, so what he did was just make it legal to spy on the country instead of stopping spying on the country! I mean come on, that's bullsh*t.
Re: Obama's NSA Defense: Congress Can Raise Objections It Can't Actually Raise
#14Remember: the great excuse is that the US is at war (albeit not against a country, but "terrorism".) Hence, treason comes very much into place here. Handling intel to "the enemy"...
That's a direct application of 1984 : make the state of war permanent so you can crush all political opposition as treason. Impressive how the US has gone from the most principled, Freedom-loving Democracy to a totalitarian state that does not say its real name in the course of 200 years.
Re: Obama's NSA Defense: Congress Can Raise Objections It Can't Actually Raise
#15Article 1, Section 6: "They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place"
Breaking the Espionage Act of 1917 is unfortunately a felony though. It's nauseating.
Re: Obama's NSA Defense: Congress Can Raise Objections It Can't Actually Raise
#16Article 1, Section 6: "They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place"
I don't understand why some of them aren't becoming whistleblowers, either. Maybe because Obama has already shown he is willing to use the Espionage Act against whistleblowers, because his logic is that "any revelation of our wrongdoings helps the enemy". That seems like a very weak argument to me either way. But why aren't Americans in the street already? Europeans would be already in the street by now for a lot les…
I am not in the streets over it, because I already assumed they were doing it, or were going to, since the Patriot Act was first signed. Most large policy issues don't get fixed until there is both a crisis and interests align.
Now, the members of congress fighting the Obama administration have a crisis to run their next election on. And, in their quest to "take Obama to task", they might solve some of the existing issues around the Patriot Act, which they voted for multiple times.
Re: Obama's NSA Defense: Congress Can Raise Objections It Can't Actually Raise
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand why some of them aren't becoming whistleblowers, either. Maybe because Obama has already shown he is willing to use the Espionage Act against whistleblowers, because his logic is that "any revelation of our wrongdoings helps the enemy". That seems like a very weak argument to me either way. But why aren't Americans in the street already? Europeans would be already in the street by now for a lot les…
> But why aren't Americans in the street already? Because they don't care too much ? Honestly there should have been multiple occasions for the American people to go and protest in the recent past but they did not. That's very easy for the government to continue and see how far they can go. The answer is : very far.
When the system has cracked you down so far that poverty is a bigger threat than surveillance, yeah. It's hard to care.
Re: Obama's NSA Defense: Congress Can Raise Objections It Can't Actually Raise
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
What I don't understand is how this squares with the Speech or Debate clause. Aren't members of Congress protected by the same sort of legislative immunity as they have in the UK, Canada, and Australia (where they call it "parliamentary privilege")?
Somewhat. Article I, section 6 of the United States Constitution: "They shall in all cases, except treason, felony and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at the session of their respective Houses, and in going to and return from the same; and for any speech or debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other place." How that plays out in this situation, I'm not sur…
They would simply charge them with a felony--revealing classified information.
Re: Obama's NSA Defense: Congress Can Raise Objections It Can't Actually Raise
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
What I don't understand is how this squares with the Speech or Debate clause. Aren't members of Congress protected by the same sort of legislative immunity as they have in the UK, Canada, and Australia (where they call it "parliamentary privilege")?
Somewhat. Article I, section 6 of the United States Constitution: "They shall in all cases, except treason, felony and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at the session of their respective Houses, and in going to and return from the same; and for any speech or debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other place." How that plays out in this situation, I'm not sur…
INAL but I believe they could be charged under the Espionage Act (18 USC sec. 793) for leaking national security secrets, which is a felony, and they would lose privilege.
Re: Obama's NSA Defense: Congress Can Raise Objections It Can't Actually Raise
#20Article 1, Section 6: "They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place"
I don't understand why some of them aren't becoming whistleblowers, either. Maybe because Obama has already shown he is willing to use the Espionage Act against whistleblowers, because his logic is that "any revelation of our wrongdoings helps the enemy". That seems like a very weak argument to me either way. But why aren't Americans in the street already? Europeans would be already in the street by now for a lot les…
"Europeans would be already in the street by now for a lot less than this."
Some Europeans. Former East Germans, Greeks, most of those in the eastern European countries, Spain, Portugal. People of a certain age in those countries can remember what living under a dictatorship was like.