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Cowards

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11–20 of 240 posts

Re: Cowards

#11
Yup, because instead of expecting politicians who made the laws and judges who approved the FISA orders, let's call out the CEOs.

I don't even understand the outrage that most US citizens are showing at the moment for the said firms even after realizing that any access that may have been provided was through the channels that the governments had 'legally' set up. And that at least some of the companies had resisted. It seems very unfair to me, largely as an outsider and yet a stakeholder, that the only people who are being held accountable in the piece are the CEOs who had little to do with the fiasco.

Re: Cowards

#12
post #8

What if companies that do not wish to do evil adopted unspoken signaling mechanism for silent protests? What if every time n NSLs were fulfilled since start of year, they donated to EFF? What if $1 was donated to EFF for every 1 GB of data they shared? Would that be illegal?

What if they released remarkably similar statements that very specifically denied the specific things they're not supposed to be admitting to doing...

Or perhaps that's the charitable interpretation.

Re: Cowards

#13

  > Or to put it another way, who the hell needs “direct
  > access” or “back doors” when companies are building
  > “secure portals” for them instead?
The primary argument against government agencies having direct access to private data is that it removes the data's caretaker from the decision-making process.

That is different from having an access portal for agencies to submit warrants or other legal requests. There is no obvious reason why a company should have an ethical obligation to resist lawfully issued warrants.

This article would have been much better if it had focused on the ethically dubious nature of FISA, and how problematic it is to interpret the fourth amendment as applying only to American citizens.

But that wouldn't have driven as many clicks.

Re: Cowards

#14
All it takes is one. One person with strong sense of the natural order of life and the courage to stand up. It may be scary as hell... I can appreciate that. However, everyone is born with the ability to reason. From reason we can innately sense what is right and wrong (not based on emotions). Do what is right, after all... if doing the right thing was easy, EVERYONE would do it.

Re: Cowards

#15
The system the NYTimes article outlines is still quite different from what the original leak suggested. According to the Times article, the requested data isn't placed into the locked mailbox until the FISA request is reviewed by somebody at the company. This is nowhere near the same level of access as what the PRISM leak suggested. So if what the Times article says is true, Zuckerberg and Page's statements weren't misleading at all. They really do "review each and every request."

The fact that they've built special systems for giving the government the data is not too surprising or scandalous. If I ran a site getting the same number of FISA requests that Google and Facebook presumably get, I'd probably also design a special system to make the process more convenient and secure. Short of openly challenging the NSA in court, this is probably the best response we could hope for. It gives the company control over what data is released and is much more secure than a back door which could be compromised.

Re: Cowards

#16
post #9

I can't believe that people are getting mad these private enterprises. If you want your government not to spy on you, tell THEM. The governments was made to serve the people. The companies are going to do what they think is their best fiduciary responsibility. Get mad at your representatives in congress, not your email providers.

Amen. Perhaps it's because we expect so little of our government that we lash out at Zuck, LP etc as they at least answer to the free market, and therefore can effect change.

Re: Cowards

#17

> Or to put it another way, who the hell needs “direct > access” or “back doors” when companies are building > “secure portals” for them instead? The primary argument against government agencies having direct access to private data is that it removes the data's caretaker from the decision-making process. That is different from having an access portal for agencies to submit warrants or other legal requests. There is n…

There is no obvious reason why a company should have an ethical obligation to resist lawfully issued warrants.

Then who will? Think about it: companies are the only entity who can challenge this kind of behavior in courts.

But that wouldn't have driven as many clicks.

Nice ad hom, but it's mistaken. Arrington is many things, but he actually feels the way he writes.

Re: Cowards

#18
I'd think most programmers can understand their reasoning behind creating "secure portals". If you're being forced to hand data over to the government you may as well do it securely and consistently.

Rather than some ad hoc process of burned CDs or USB drives, just create some simple software that makes the process secure, reliable, and traceable.

The alternative is USB drives and Fedex envelopes, which is harder to track and probably less secure.

Re: Cowards

#20
post #15

The system the NYTimes article outlines is still quite different from what the original leak suggested. According to the Times article, the requested data isn't placed into the locked mailbox until the FISA request is reviewed by somebody at the company. This is nowhere near the same level of access as what the PRISM leak suggested. So if what the Times article says is true, Zuckerberg and Page's statements weren't m…

But what if the FISA request is 'everything'. Yes they're complying, someone gives it a look over then adds everything and keeps it updated in real time.

They don't have direct access to the servers, they're complying with the law, they have everyone's data.

The worst bit is that this is all kept secret. If it's all so acceptable then why didn't the public at least get told.

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